I've read the comparison post done for the pastrami where smoked first then SV seems to turn out better for that cut. I'm trying to do the same for a pork butt. Due to large number of family members converging at my humble abode and amount of meats that will be prepared for a work get together as well as the family gathering, I'm trying to maximize use of my appliances. So, for a pork butt, if I was to smoke it and then SV, any recommendations? Smoke it until it hits the stall, then SV? If so, then what temp for SV and for how long? Appreciate the assist. - Dom.
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Here are some contradictory note from my experience, and from others (named as appropriate):
=== butts
Smoked 3 hours + 18 hours sous vide at 176F yielded 53%
Pulled pork sous-vide time: 18-24 hours at 176F (Try 36 hours at 155F to see whether it comes out moister).
Smoke for a few hours first, or add smoked bacon to packages (1 piece / pound). Meathead sets finished temp to be 203. Others think that’s too high for SV, and recommend lower/longer. Also note that Elder Ward cooks it in the egg to 200 internal (no SV).
Add BBQ sauce if you like after searing and shredding- Ernest on Amazing Ribs did sous-vide 158 for 24 hours, then 4 hours at 160 in the KBQ. (Note the temps, with the KBQ no higher than the sous-vide machine - also note that the KBQ cooks faster than most smokers because it’s convection).
- mtvector did 165 for 24 hours followed by 3 hours at 275 in BGE and reported good results.
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165 x 18-24h for pulled texture. That's what Kenji recommends. Smoke until the stall. Or just 140 IT. It's not getting smokier after 140 IT, and SV is gonna mess with bark, so you're probably gonna want to run it under the broiler or on the grill to rebark.
In traditional BBQ, you are smoking in a hotter medium (the smoker) to get it to the point of collagen breakdown (generally 203). In Sous B Que, you're achieving the collagen breakdown at a lower temp, with greater efficiency of energy transfer (water is more efficient than air), for a longer time. Even if you're just going 18 hours, you're still transferring more energy, more gently, into your pork.
Now, I might suggest that maybe, with sous vide, you don't want to go for pulled. You might want to go for slicing, like a brisket, only from the pork shoulder. For that, I'd suggest 140-145 x 24h. I suspect, if you're willing, you can go looonger than 24 and get something pullable... I think the beauty of SV is being able to get things that you cannot get any other way. I'm pretty sure I did one low and long, like 140x 48, but I cannot find the posts, so I'm not sure it happened. I may have only been thinking about it.
Any rate, I would smoke for maybe 3 hours, to 140 IT, sv at 140-145 or 165 for 18-24, then shock, then sear.Comment
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Here's a comment I made on another thread about this question a while ago. I would not smoke it first, personally. That screws with the bark to much.
#4
September 19th, 2016, 01:28 AM
I've done that cook twice for no other reason than to experiment. I had no guidance, I didn't copy any recipe, I just combined all of my BBQ experience with what little I had learned about Sous Vide cooking to that point, with the help of the Modernists Cuisine cook book on SV cooking.
When planning the cook... My first thought was what do I do about the stall? Will there be a stall? So... I decided I would SV the butt to 180°. Thinking that's generally past the normal stall temperatures.
Then I thought about how long it was going to take in the smoker for me to get the bark texture that I wanted? Knowing I would put it in the smoker at about 38°.
Then i thought about how am I going to get the smoke flavor I'm used too? So i decided an ice bath would be best after taking it out of the bath tub then putting it in the fridge overnight. That would allow me to put a cold clod of meat in the smoker, which smoke will adhere to best.
Then i thought... Do I cook to temperature (203°), probe softness, or do I cook to the look of the bark? Then I put my Thermapen probe into the meat, while cold, just to see where my starting point was. It had a long way to go.
I fired up my large BGE to 240° and put my pork butt on and put in more wood chunks than normal, all in one bunch right over the small fire. Thinking they will burn off in about one hour, not to be replaced with more chunks. I normally smoke at 225° but I thought the hotter temperature would build the bark faster. There was no stall. It did take a while for the meat temperature to increase because the starting point was 38°.
The end result was I smoked the butt for about 5 hours and got the bark color and texture I wanted and the meat was probe soft at that point and it was 205°. I got plenty of smoke flavor and the meat was moist and tender.
I will repeat that cook when time is an issue, entertaining guests, where I MUST serve it on time. In fact that's the only way I'll do that cook under those circumstances. I like knowing that it's about a 5 hour window so I can accurately plan.👍
On the other hand... A 14 to 16 hour full packer cook is no problem either.
Difference in food taste, texture, moisture? It's about a push. Most people would never be able to tell the difference.
Fire & Water is a perfect marriage... I think Meathead implied.😆
Last edited by Breadhead; September 19th, 2016, 01:56 AM.
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Great suggestions all around. I, too, will experiment to see what turns out. I already started it in the smoker, so it's SV next. Might just slice it instead of pulling, but I'll repost. I'm doing it short time turn around, 24h, so it might not be the best, but I'll learn something from it. More to follow.Comment
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Pinch testing is the SV version of probe testing. See how it pinches. If that's how you want it, take it out.Comment
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I ended up smoking the pork shoulder until it hit the stall, then put it in a cooler tightly wrapped and ice over it to stop carryover cooker, let it sit and coold down while I tended to other things. I got the SV set up and up to temp, 165, and placed the cooled down butt in a double zip lock bag (just to be sure it would not leak around the seal) and left it in SV for 18 hours. I pulled it out, sprinkled MHMD, placed it in oven at 300 for 1-1/2 hrs, and that was it. I have to say, the result is pretty good. I'm very pleased with it. I made a second pork shoulder/butt in the smoker, pulled it out at 195 and set in in faux cambro for 20 min. Both turned out great, but the juiciness of the smoke + SV combo is definitely noticeable. This website and everyone here in the Pit have created a monster, and for that, I thank you!
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Does anyone remove the bone from a bone in Boston Butt before you sous vide it? Douglas Baldwin recommends doing this so that is why I am asking, I don't really see a reason for removing it but maybe I a missing something with my thought process.Comment
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I followed Kenji's recipe for PB last weekend and it turned out great. Nice bark on the exterior and moist meat inside. Started out in the SV for 24 hours at 165 degrees. Then put it in the Pit Barrel Cooker for 4 hours at 275 degrees until it hit an IT of 203. With a little planning, it is a much more manageable cook doing it this way. When I cook a pork butt entirely in the smoker it may take 13 hours. I have to get up early in the morning to get it ready for dinner. This way I only have to worry about a 4 hour cook which makes planning much easier.Comment
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Tried out sous vide pork butt this weekend, turned out pretty good, not as much smoke or bark as I prefer but very tender. In the bath 160 degrees for 24hrs, snow bath for a quick cool, then fridge for 36 hours. Put on the BGE for 4 hours at 250 degrees, with smoke pot full of apple wood until reached 170 degrees, there was no stall. If need to be done at a certain time will definitely do it again.Last edited by hogdog6; January 29, 2017, 07:51 PM.Comment
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Pulled real easyComment
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I was inspired by this post to get cooking again (two young kids take that out of you a bit), so went to the local store and picked up some butts. I went with a different rub this time, since I knew with the SV I wouldn't pick up as much smoke flavor. Heavy on the sweet paprika, lighter on the heat. I put the rub and the dry brine on at the same time, since I knew I was doing one for the super bowl (GO PATS!) and did the other in the snow yesterday, but they both turned out great.
Time and temps: both at 155 for ~29 to 30 hours in the SV (target was 24, but again with the kids, I work on their schedule, not mine). For the super bowl one, I then did three hours at 275 to 300 on the kettle with SNS and some local apple chunks. For the one in the snow, just on the grill (wood was too far away and it was cold out!) for two hours.
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Good looking stuff there, with that and the great comeback, I know your SB experience was just fine.Comment
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