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Atkins vs low glycemic?

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  • Oak Smoke
    Club Member
    • Aug 2018
    • 450
    • Central Texas

    Atkins vs low glycemic?

    About 15 years ago I decided to lose some weight so I did the Atkins plan. I'm a carnivore by nature so it went well. Three weeks after I hit my target weight I had a heart stack. There was a small artery on the back of my heart that had clogged. A couple of stints fixed me right up. The cardiologist said that other than that one spot I had a great circulatory system. Retirement has not been good for my weight. I need to make a change in the way I eat, but I'm reluctant to do the Atkins again. How are the newer plans I've seen several of you refer to, low glycemic, different from the old Atkins.
  • Willy
    Charter Member
    • Apr 2015
    • 1915
    • High Desert of the Great Southwest

    #2
    My general understanding of diets is that they're all "crocks" in the long run and some are dangerous. I think the only sensible plan is to eat smaller portions, eat a wide variety of foods, and get exercise--calories burned to equal or exceed calories in. Minimizing sugars and simple starches (things that are high on the glycemic index) seems sensible, too. Atkins and it's spin-offs are generally frowned on by doctors ("https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/how-safe-is-atkins-diet#1 ) A quote from the site: "[Atkins] provides weight loss at a very high cost to overall health, or at least that has been the prevailing medical opinion."

    Let the flaming begin!

    Edited to add: There are certainly web sites that highly recommend certain diets, for instance Atkins and its spawn, but most sites aren't so "positive". I always remember that I can find MDs and MD-sponsored websites that are anti-vaccine and that spin a good yarn. I don't trust 'em. Then again, studying nutrition is very difficult and it's really a field in its infancy. Who knows what the future holds?
    Last edited by Willy; February 11, 2019, 12:00 PM.

    Comment


    • FireMan
      FireMan commented
      Editing a comment
      OK, macronutrients? This is where I draw the line. Eat meat, work a little, be happy.

    • Potkettleblack
      Potkettleblack commented
      Editing a comment
      Prioritize Protein, Control Carbs, Fill with Fat. That is all Macronutrients are.

    • Locotech
      Locotech commented
      Editing a comment
      LOL...I'm with FireMan on this one.
  • Murdy
    Club Member
    • May 2018
    • 462
    • North-Central Illinois

    #3
    U.S. News & World Report has been doing an annual survey of popular diets for years that seems pretty credible:

    https://health.usnews.com/wellness/f...-diets-overall

    If you go with something like the Mediterranean Diet, DASH, or Mayo Clinic Diet, you're probably safe. I think most diets work because they exclude things like sweets, alcohol, and other extreme sources of calories, and that you are generally more conscientious about food choices while on one. Best bet, talk to your doctor, and if the doc isn't helpful, ask for a recommendation to a nutritionist or dietician.

    Last edited by Murdy; February 11, 2019, 03:53 PM. Reason: corrected source

    Comment


    • Murdy
      Murdy commented
      Editing a comment
      Probably so. Can't really think of much that doesn't. I would never suggest relying on it exclusively; nevertheless, it's a good, well organized source to begin with.

    • Oak Smoke
      Oak Smoke commented
      Editing a comment
      I did talk to a doctor. His answer was that everyone should eat like they were diabetic. I'm not sure exactly all that entails.

    • Potkettleblack
      Potkettleblack commented
      Editing a comment
      Diabetes.co.uk
  • Spinaker
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    #4
    Regardless of what diet you choose. It has to be a lifestyle change, or it will never last. Dieting and then going back to the way you used to eat is failure 101.

    Comment


    • Oak Smoke
      Oak Smoke commented
      Editing a comment
      That's why I called them plans. I want to choose a plan for going forward, not a short term fix. I was pretty sure I would get some good ideas from y'all.

    • Potkettleblack
      Potkettleblack commented
      Editing a comment
      True that. I lost 55 in 2006. I qualified for the National Weight Control Registry (maintain 30 lbs loss for over a year). I moved to Chicago and it all fell apart. Until last year. Another 55. Maintaining now.

    • Spinaker
      Spinaker commented
      Editing a comment
      Nice work! That is some serious weight loss. Potkettleblack
  • Larry Grover
    Club Member
    • Mar 2017
    • 333

    #5
    In the late 1800’s the average person consumed around 2 pounds of sugar per year. It’s estimated that now the avg person consumes nearly 150 pounds! You don’t need a special diet, just cut sugar to a minimum, eat natural non-processed foods, lots of veggies & the best quality meat you can buy. The best diet book I’ve read is “For men only”’ by Jack Lalanne. It’s from the 1950’s so it may be hard to find, but he talks about how the blood is the river of life, and how to optimize your health through nutrition and exercise.

    With that said I’m gonna go finish my Knob Creek whiskey and Coca Cola ribs
    Last edited by Larry Grover; February 11, 2019, 04:47 PM.

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    • Ahumadora
      Ahumadora commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree with this. I have always struggeld to gain weight, but dont eat sugar or much starch. Get rid off all the processed crap and cook basic food.

    • FireMan
      FireMan commented
      Editing a comment
      Ahumadora , yup!
  • OmegaDog12
    Club Member
    • Aug 2016
    • 130

    #6
    I agree with the above. The DASH diet is best if you tend to have high blood pressure. The Mediterranean Diet is also great and seems to do the best job of lowering cholesterol. Most of the long-term studies agree with what Spinaker and all of the above said-you MUST change your lifestyle and eating habits forever. That said, according to the studies on diets, Weight Watchers Diet produces the best long-term outcomes simply because it's a diet you can live with. You eat a little of everything (portion control) and don't starve yourself. Lots of studies have shown 5 little meals a day is better for you than starving yourself or skipping meals. Drink lots of water as this is the critical step in the breakdown of fats. Also, I would suggest getting into weight training. It improves your looks and it increases your basal metabolic rate (Men's Health had an article a long time ago about it boosting your testosterone level! It was called The Testosterone Advantage Plan)). Finally, STOP the late night eating and eating in front of the TV. You eat a lot more than you realize during those times GOOD LUCK!
    The OmegaDog

    Comment

    • Troutman
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      • Aug 2017
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      #7
      Diets are like belly buttons, everyone has one. I chuckle every time someone in my office comes up with the latest fad diet and swears by it. Latest here is Keto which in essence is the same as the Atkins diet mentioned above. I jumped on that diet back in the 90's. Lost about 25 pounds in less than a month, then struggled to loose another 10 pounds over the following several months. Everything was fine until I got my cravings for most of what I like to eat outside of protein; namely any type of starch, be it potatoes, bread, cereals, rice, pasta, etc. Along with no alcohol and other restrictions I found myself avoiding almost all restaurants. Bottom line I jumped back off the diet and gained back the weight.

      I think our bodies, our societal way of eating and the way we are programmed makes it difficult to stay on diets that turn us back into neanderthals. I also have since been on a calorie restrictive diet and that worked and was probably the most sensible. I have not lost the weight like Atkins but I also don't have the cravings or the loss of some key components to my diet.

      Or I can just say screw it, live life to the fullest and die a happy man !! Maybe plan C is the way to be !!

      Comment

      • Potkettleblack
        Club Member
        • Jun 2016
        • 1970
        • Beautiful Downtown Berwyn
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        #8
        First, Atkins didn't block your artery. Whatever you were doing for the years before likely calcified your artery, and six months of low carb/high fat did not fix the calcification. I'd guess you didn't have a pre-Atkins CAC, so we'll never know, but there's no real science to the lipid hypothesis.

        Second, Low GI is highly fraught. People's GI response varies, widely, based on genes and such, so what's in the book or on the website may not work for you. Or it might. No way to know. And glycemic load matters. You can spike your insulin with a high volume of slow carbs. It just might spike 5 hours later, and for five hours. I'd say low GI is dumb, but let's just say it's fraught.

        Third, There is magic out there. There's weird low fat magic that happens <10% dietary fat. And there's weird high fat magic that happens at >65% of calories from fat (ketosis). They're both awesome.
        https://rawfoodsos.files.wordpress.c...ical_graph.jpg
        It is much easier to be nutritionally complete at the high fat end of the spectrum.

        Lastly, the dirty little secret that folks don't like to talk about is that quality matters.
        https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/w...b-low-fat.html

        Basically, you can't lose while eating junk. Junk would include lots of sugar, commodity chicken, nutrition poor veggies, lots of starch, etc.

        Comment

        • Willy
          Charter Member
          • Apr 2015
          • 1915
          • High Desert of the Great Southwest

          #9
          FWIW, my BIL had a heart attack about two years ago. Heart disease does run in his family. His doctors have him on a strict low-fat diet. He is to minimize consumption of simple sugars/starches as well. He is to get regular (daily) exercise. I must assume the doctors are aware of the latest research in this field.

          As for claims about the pluses or minuses of a high fat, high protein diet, low carb diet, it's a Google crap shoot. I ain't qualified to be a referee. Talk to a doctor, preferably a cardiologist.

          Comment


          • HawkerXP
            HawkerXP commented
            Editing a comment
            My cardiologist touts portion control as #1.

          • Willy
            Willy commented
            Editing a comment
            @HawkerXP: Does your cardiologist have any recommendation regarding fat or simple (high glycemic index) carbs. Exercise.
            Last edited by Willy; February 11, 2019, 07:53 PM.

          • Murdy
            Murdy commented
            Editing a comment
            I had a heart attack a while ago, cardiac ward at the hospital recommended Mediterranean diet. Plus at least 30 minutes cardio on most days.
        • Potkettleblack
          Club Member
          • Jun 2016
          • 1970
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          #10
          I’m just gonna share my experience. I lost 64 lbs last year, from January to October. I regained 12 of that in November and December, but have lost another 4 this year and am calling it maintenance.

          This has been through carb restriction, walking, and eating higher quality foods and more home prepared meals. Losing the weight also entailed getting my thyroid squared away. And a big thing was getting my head around a lot of things I had going on at the time.

          I consider what I do to be keto adjacent. I think there are some weird disordered behaviors in keto as some folks do it, and I don’t do much of that. I prioritize protein. I avoid sugar and starch most of the time. I eat some veggies, I use a lot of spices and herbs in my cooking. I work to source better meats and produce, especially eggs, chicken and pork (in that order).

          Be careful with this. My weight and blood sugar aren’t the only things that have gotten better. A lot of emotional healing comes out with the fat loss. And it’s very odd.

          Comment


          • Potkettleblack
            Potkettleblack commented
            Editing a comment
            The thing about keeping carbs low, you have to find the right level of carbs for maintenance when you're ready.

            Oak: So, lemme get this straight... you smoked for years, you went on Atkins for a few months, and it's the Atkins that gave you the MI and the stents?

            Seems unlikely, given the role of inflammation on heart disease and the inflammatory nature of smoking.

          • Oak Smoke
            Oak Smoke commented
            Editing a comment
            PCB, you are so right. Cigarettes are terrible for the heart and goodness knows I gave them plenty of years to do the damage. I don't know what caused me to have a blockage at one small place behind my heart and no evidence oh heart disease any where else. I virtually lived on protein while I was doing the Atkins. I know that's not right, but wow did it work. I know the science of low carb has evolved. Can you recommend a good book or web site. Thank you for your intelligent, insightful, concern

          • Potkettleblack
            Potkettleblack commented
            Editing a comment
            I am fond of Diet 2.0/Burn Fat Not Sugar. I was an Atkins dieter in 2001-2, I did Protein Power and Protein Power Life Plan in 2008-11, and now I’m pretty much PPLP/Burn Fat Not Sugar.

            But folks swear that the two modern bibles are The Art of Ketogenic Living (Phinney and Volek) and the Obesity Code (Fung).
        • Buck Flicks
          Club Member
          • Jul 2017
          • 340
          • Dee Eff Dub, TX

          #11
          A lot of what has been going on in the USA in terms of diet and what is good and what is bad is directly the result of the sugar industry's shady tactics. They were behind the "low fat" and "fat free" craze over the last 30-40 years. They socially engineered the entire country into thinking fat was the enemy, meanwhile, continually pelting us with "low fat" cookies, milk, and other foods that had twice or thrice the typical amount of added sugar. I've done a small bit of research in to this recently and it's stunning, just the tiny bit of information I've learned - there is likely much more and much more shady stuff that I will never know about. Meanwhile, the millions of people thought they were eating better when they were actually eating far worse.

          I'm coming to grips with the fact that sugar is the enemy. Not necessarily carbs. Added sugar in particular - it's everywhere. It's insidious. Like PotKettleetc said - buying better food, preparing my own fresh food instead of going out all the time, and avoiding processed foods especially processed foods with added sugar (most or all of them) is going to be the key. It's a slow transformation. Recent diagnosis of Type 2 diabetes is the catalyst, but healthier lifestyle, feeling better, less pain, and being more active are the reasons.

          Comment


          • Buck Flicks
            Buck Flicks commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm having a hard time right now. I love ice cream and it's been really difficult. Also chocolate. I'm slowly building better eating habits. While not immediately earth-shattering in the weight loss department, it's helping me with my cravings. I've done the Atkins/South Beach/Keto thing before (same idea, a new name every 10 years) and always fail after initial success because the cravings hit me like a freight train after a few weeks. Without fail. I'm making slow but permanent changes now.

          • Oak Smoke
            Oak Smoke commented
            Editing a comment
            Good luck, quitting smoking was easier than getting the sugar out of my food.

          • Potkettleblack
            Potkettleblack commented
            Editing a comment
            It goes deeper than the sugar. There is corn, soy and or wheat in nearly everything. The rise in obesity and diabetes correlates nearly perfectly with the rise in the use of vegetable oils, particularly soybean oil. Yes, it’s the sugar and the refined starches. But it’s also the crappy, processed oils as well.
        • Larry Grover
          Club Member
          • Mar 2017
          • 333

          #12
          I went on a NSNG diet last year (no sugar, no grains.) It ranks in there between Atkins & Paleo. It was easy to follow and I lost 23 pounds in 3 months. Then came a cruise followed by the holidays so it went out the window and I gained 10 pounds back. This year I will eat what I want with a focus on low sugar & grains and quality meat. One of my dogs gets sick eating water-chilled chicken, what the hell are they putting in that stuff? There's no seasoning at all! Spend the extra bucks to get free range air chilled etc.
          Last edited by Larry Grover; February 12, 2019, 06:21 PM.

          Comment


          • Potkettleblack
            Potkettleblack commented
            Editing a comment
            Buy the best chicken you can afford. Ditto for pork. Beef is of less consequence due to the feeding practice.

          • FireMan
            FireMan commented
            Editing a comment
            PKB yup!
        • grantgallagher
          Club Member
          • Feb 2018
          • 1141
          • NJ

          #13
          You want to lose weight and get healthier...cut out sugar and cheap carbs. Period. Im not going to go into detail on a long winded post but diets like atkins and keto are very restrictive if you follow them to a T. Personally ive done "keto" for a while but my goal was never to get into ketosis. I still eat legumes, and most veggies, and some fruit. So im never going to get into the 25g of carbs a day zone but it does allow me to avoid added sugar and processed carbs.

          Ive personally found that just plain old sensible eating works a lot better than trying to nail yourself to some super strict regimen.

          Comment

          • Larry Grover
            Club Member
            • Mar 2017
            • 333

            #14
            Yesterday comedian Adam Carolla had 'NSNG' guru Vinnie Tortorich on his podcast to break down Tom Brady's diet. It's free to download and is both interesting and funny. The main part you'd want to hear is between 15:00 and 50:00 (part 1).

            https://adamcarolla.com/blogs/podcas...nnie-tortorich

            If anyone out there commutes to work I can't recommend Carolla's show enough. It is life improving and entertaining at the same time. Always a wide variety of subjects discussed.

            Comment

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