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A Disappointing Development, but Thankful for This Group

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  • CaptainMike
    Club Member
    • Nov 2015
    • 2305
    • The Great State of Jefferson
    • Weber Summit Charcoal Grill w/SnS and DnG (Spartacus)
      Old school big'ol Traeger w/Pro controller (Big Tex)
      2 W22's w/SnS, DnG (1 black, 1 copper) (Minions 1 and 2)
      20+ y/o many times rebuilt Weber Genesis w/GrillGrates (Gas Passer)
      20 x 30 Santa Maria grill (Maria, duh)
      Bradley cabinet smoker (Pepper Gomez)
      36" Blackstone griddle (The Black Beauty)
      Thermoworks Smoke and Thermapen.

    A Disappointing Development, but Thankful for This Group

    I am by no means starting any sort of debate, and if the mods are uncomfortable with this then please delete (or I may if it gets uncomfortable).

    Recently, a well known chef, author, and restaurant owner made a public statement about refusing service to people who wear certain attire. I believe strongly in a person's right to express their views, and this post is not about the merits or rightness/wrongness of the issue, but it was a very disappointing way to express a viewpoint. This person has since walked back the comments and apologized for inciting the eventual, visceral response and I personally will take that for what it's worth.

    This person was someone I admired and learned a tremendous amount of culinary knowledge by following, and for that I'm eternally thankful. But, with such a lack of admirable people in this age it was unfortunate, even unnecessary, that this person decided to express their views in such a way, and to marginalize themselves as well as those that were singled out.

    The reason I'm writing this is to partially lament, but mainly to celebrate what we have here in The Pit. We are a very diverse group of people from all over the world, all walks of life, and made up of all of the different things that make us who we are. Our most uniting and common bond is our love of cooking and the camaraderie that goes with breaking bread. Food is universal. It transcends virtually every other human activity and is one of the very few things we ALL have in common.

    Over the years I have gotten to know many of you and I count you as my Brothers and Sisters. We are kind, caring, and tolerant of one another and are our best cheerleaders. I think our group is a beautiful example of civility, community, and mutual respect. Please don't read too much into the issue I brought up, it has that "3rd glass of wine tweet" ring to it, and many of us are guilty of that. It just made think how grateful I am to be a part of this fun-luvin' party! As Meathead says: it's not what's on the table, but who's sitting at the table
    Last edited by CaptainMike; February 1st, 2019, 05:35 PM.
  • Ahumadora
    Club Member
    • Oct 2015
    • 1874
    • Pilar Buenos Aires, Argentina

    CaptainMike cut it out! Your'e bringing a tear to my eye!! Yep, we have a good group here and lets do eveerything we can to keep it that way.


    • CaptainMike
      CaptainMike commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm with you Brother!
  • Troutman
    Club Member
    • Aug 2017
    • 6886
    • Republic of Texallence

      22" Weber Kettle - Red Premium Limited Edition
      6 Burner Weber Summit Gasser
      22" and 18" Weber WSM Smoker
      18” Jumbo Joe
      36" double door Lyfe Tyme offset stick burner (SOLD !)
      Pitts & Spitts Pellet Pro 2436
      Classic Thermopen
      Thermoworks SMOKE
      Fireboard Pro with Pit Viper fan
      Grill Grates
      SNS for the 22" Weber kettle
      A-MAZE-N Smoker 12" Tube & Tray
      Weber stainless veggie basket
      Weber stainless fish basket
      Weber stainless rib rack
      Phat Mat cooking mats
      Barbestar BBQ Cooking Gloves
      For Beef (brisket, beef ribs, large clods/roasts) = 100% mesquite, oak or hickory
      For Chicken & other fowl = competition blend, cherry/oak/hickory
      For Turkey = 100% hickory or competition blend
      For Pork Shoulder = mesquite, oak or hickory
      For Pork Chops or Ribs = 100% applewood
      Anova Immersion Circulator 900 watt & 12 & 18 quart Rubbermaid containers with hinged sous vide lids
      Generic Calphalon non-stick cookware set of pots and pans
      12" & 14" All-Clad Stainless skillets
      Cast Iron 12" skillet by Victoria
      La Creuset Cast Iron 7 quart Dutch Oven - Yellow Round
      La Creuset Cast Iron 7 quart Dutch Oven - Cherry Oval
      Old Revere Wear Copper & Stainless Pots (handed down)

      JA Henckels 15 piece Stainless Knife Set
      Victorinox 12" Fibrox Pro Slicing Knive
      Victorinox 6" Curved Boning Knife
      Set of Dalstrong Japanese Steak Knives

    What I've found is that if I turn off the boob tube, put down the newspapers, stay completely away from the internet, then I've found that we as human beings really have a lot in common over all. Generally speaking we are tolerant and polite to our neighbors, we care about family and friends, and most of all we have that commonality of needing to nourish our bodies. There is no culture on earth that does not celebrate the good, the bad or the ugly without sitting down and doing so over a good meal. So when you come right down to it, we as humans seek shelter, security for our families, water and food, and have done so for thousands of years. So to find common ground using food, and particularly live fire cooking which is at it's very primal best (aka barbecue), we can put aside all the rest of the junk, laugh, as you say break bread, and just get along.

    It ain't hard, it's just cutting through the fog and clutter of all that's around us that's keeping us in the state we are in as a species. Your points are well taken CaptainMike and I share them wholeheartedly. Smoke on brother !!!


    • obiQsmoker
      obiQsmoker commented
      Editing a comment
      Ditto that - well said!!

    • au4stree
      au4stree commented
      Editing a comment
      I learned a long time ago, the news both tv and print are just vehicles for them (politicians) to divide us. I quit watching the 24hrs news channels and reading blogs or listen to talk radio either. I love it here, it a great place to disconnect from the real world and discuss the great bbq/cooking hobby. I love sitting down with my neighbors, that’s what it’s all about b

    • CaptainMike
      CaptainMike commented
      Editing a comment
      Thank you Steve, I figured you'd be of a similar mind.
  • RonB
    Club Member
    • Apr 2016
    • 11811
    • Near Richmond VA
    • Weber Performer Deluxe
      Pizza insert
      Smokenator 1000
      Cookshack Smokette Elite
      2 Thermapens
      lots of probes.

    This is the best group of people I have found on the internet. I also hope it stays that way.


    • Mudkat
      Mudkat commented
      Editing a comment

    • HawkerXP
      HawkerXP commented
      Editing a comment

    • Brewmaster
      Brewmaster commented
      Editing a comment
      Dilly Dilly
  • Larry Grover
    Club Member
    • Mar 2017
    • 325
    • https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/forum/grills-and-smokers/charcoal/460226-bbq-guru-pit-viper-fan-to-pk360-tutorial

    Well said. It kinda reminded me of a comedy from a long time ago. This guy was the owner of a very upscale restaurant who served celebrities & rich folks. He was happily mingling with the crowd, then out of the blue he went crazy screaming at the top of his lungs. So someone asked "My God what's wrong, are you ok?" He replied "Someone just drove a Ford Ranger into the parking lot!!!"


    • Mudkat
      Mudkat commented
      Editing a comment
      Dang. I forget the name of the restaurant but I remember the parking in the parking lot. 😀
  • klflowers
    Club Member
    • Sep 2015
    • 2754
    • Tennessee

    CaptainMike PREACH!!!


    • binarypaladin
      Club Member
      • May 2017
      • 266
      • Weber Original Kettle Premium 22 (black)
        Weber Smokey Mountain 18
        Weber Jumbo Joe
        Adrenaline Barbecue Company Slow 'N Sear (original)
        Adrenaline Barbecue Company Charcoal Basket
        Adrenaline Barbecue Company Drip 'N Griddle Pan
        Cajun Bandit Smokey Mountain Upgrade Kit
        Gateway Drum Smoker Rib Hanger Kit
        Thermoworks Smoke
        Lavatools Javelin Pro Duo (red)
        Flame Boss 300

      Food—or rather, preparing food for others—has become one of my favorite ways of expressing goodness to others. As I've become kind of the resident cook in both my family, and someone who regularly holds social gatherings at my home for business and other groups, it's amazing how many bridges you can make.

      I had a guy at work who would regularly fly into the red on certain political topics with most people he didn't know well and it included me. One day, I brought in smoked burgers for everyone at the office, and suddenly things were different. Topics that had been very touchy for him before that were suddenly things we could then discuss. It didn't matter whether we agreed or not, but "agree to disagree" isn't a bad thing at all! Especially when, once the conversation is had, you can not just agree to disagree but understand why someone else would feel a certain way. After that, it's mostly a nonissue in terms of personal relationships.

      +1 Troutman

      Food is my favorite bridge. It's cliché and all, but love is the best way to conquer hate and it's also in all but the most extreme of circumstances the best way to resolve conflict. It's unfortunate the media in general (internet, TV, newspapers, whatever) derives so much traffic and revenue from riling people up. I feel it creates a greater illusion of conflict than what really exists.

      I am still amazed at the doors cooking for others has opened and how much it's helped me express feelings that I have a hard time expressing otherwise. I am thankful for and to this community for helping me both improve my craft and understand how important it is—and how much more important it is than just getting my temperatures correct!
      Last edited by binarypaladin; February 1st, 2019, 06:37 PM.


      • DavidNorcross
        Club Member
        • Nov 2017
        • 1029
        • Virginia
        • Rec Tec RT-680
          Coleman RoadTrip LXX
          Javelin Pro Duo
          More Cast Iron than I care to admit

        I deleted Facebook last year and turned to this forum. We live in a social society that does not know how to be social. I come to this group to read, study and interact 4 or 5 times a day. I appreciate this group.


        • Frozen Smoke
          Club Member
          • Nov 2017
          • 1528
          • Northern Mn

          I retired in June. When I did I pretty much stopped watching any national news, visiting any web based national news sites and stopped engaging in conversations on most news topics. I have never had a Facebook account or any of the social media platforms that are out there. I engage in the things that make me happy and do not participate in the ones that don't. Not only do I think I'm a better person for it I know I'm a happier person.

          Life's way too short to hate people for what they wear or what they believe. There are plenty evil people out there to hate and plenty hate to go around. No need to expand it to unwarranted places. Before you realize it you hate most everything and most people most of the time and finally one day you realize you've spent so much time hating you hate yourself. Hate is a cancer and it spreads like one.

          This is a great place to participate in one of the things i enjoy and that is cooking.


          • HawkerXP
            HawkerXP commented
            Editing a comment
            That is what my cardiologist also told me CaptainMike Ahumadora they never say "wished I worked more" almost all say "wish I spent more time with the family."

          • Huskee
            Huskee commented
            Editing a comment
            I re-read this post again a few weeks later and I still love it! So well put, Frozen Smoke.

          • Frozen Smoke
            Frozen Smoke commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks for the positive comment Huskee I realized a long time ago that hate is a business and there are many people and media platforms that sell and promote it. When the fact is 95% of the time everyday people of all races get along just fine.
            Race baiting or dividing people is what some people do as a living and are unfortunately very good at it.
        • FireMan
          Charter Member
          • Jul 2015
          • 7142
          • Bottom of Winnebago

          Geez CaptainMike I thought of you as my dad not my brother, ever since you posted that new avatar. My thoughts to everyone here, keep up the good work. We all appreciate it. This is the way it should be, helping one another & pattin each other on the back, including my dad ol’ Cap’n.


          • Donw
            Donw commented
            Editing a comment
            Oh my goodness. Just checked Bonsey’s genealogy charts. So if CaptainMike is your Dad then I am your Uncle. Why don’t you ever visit?

          • FireMan
            FireMan commented
            Editing a comment
            I want to see those charts,

          • Huskee
            Huskee commented
            Editing a comment
            Lol at all
        • RichieB
          Club Member
          • Apr 2018
          • 1097
          • Western Mass

          CaptainMike well said. Thank you. I stay off opinion it this comminity. That's not the case in other platforms. Some of what I say hasn't been well received. I've said it before, I love the people, sense tolerance, willing to share knowledge here. The cooks, food and knowledge are why we're here. But, for me it's more than that. It's You and the community Meathead and his team have created.


          • Spinaker
            • Nov 2014
            • 10375
            • Land of Tonka
            • John "J R"
              Instagram: JRBowlsby
              Smokin' Hound Que
              Minnesota/ United States of America

              Dexter (Beagle mix)
              Kinnick (American Foxhound)

              Big Green Egg (Large) X2
              Blackstone 36" Outdoor Griddle 4-Burner

              Broil King Keg
              Karubeque C-60
              Kamado Joe Jr. (Black)
              Lodge L410 Hibachi
              Pit Barrel Cooker
              Pit Barrel Cooker 2.0
              R&V Works FF2-R-ST 4-Gallon Fryer

              Weber Spirit Gasser
              FireBoard (Base Package)
              Thermoworks ThermaPen (Red)
              Thermoworks MK4 (Orange)

              BBQ Dragon
              Big Green Egg Plate Setter
              Benzomatic TS4000 Torch X 2
              Benzomatic TS800 High Temp Torch X 2

              Bayou Classic 44 qt Stainless Stock Pot
              Bayou Classic 35K BTU Burner

              Digi Q DX2 (Medium Pit Viper Fan)
              Dragon VT 2-23 C Torch
              Eggspander Kit X2
              Field Skillet No. 8,10,12

              Finex Cat Iron Line
              FireBoard Drive
              Lots and Lots of Griswold Cast Iron
              Grill Grates
              Joule Water Circulator
              KBQ Fire Grate

              Kick Ash Basket (KAB) X4
              Lots of Lodge Cast Iron
              Husky 6 Drawer BBQ Equipment Cabinet
              Large Vortex
              Marlin 1894 .44 Magnum
              Marquette Castings No. 13 (First Run)
              Smithey No. 12
              Smokeware Chimney Cap X 3
              Stargazer No.10, 12
              Tool Wizard BBQ Tongs
              Univex Duro 10" Meat Slicer
              FOGO Priemium Lump Charcoal
              Kingsford Blue and White
              Rockwood Lump Charcoal
              Apple, Cherry & Oak Log splits for the C-60

              Buck 119 Special
              Dexter 12" Brisket Sword
              Next Major Purchase
              Lone Star Grillz 24 X 48 Offset

            Thank you very much for this post. I think it goes without saying how much the staff here at Amazingribs.com appreciates everything our members do to make this a truly unique place.

            There are occasional spats here, but nothing like what I have seen on other forums. What really amazes me, is how those differences are settled with civility and understanding. I think the world needs more of that. There is no question in my mind that if the world was full of people like all of you, it would be a much better place. (albeit maybe a bit more laid back. )

            I am truly honored to be able to work for such a great group of people.
            A group of people that are dedicated to sharing knowledge so we can all spread more love to our friends and family.

            This place is truly special; and you have yourselves to thank for that!!

            Keep the smoke rollin!


            • Spinaker
              Spinaker commented
              Editing a comment
              Nah, you are far, far from that happening, my friend. CaptainMike

            • CaptainMike
              CaptainMike commented
              Editing a comment
              I was VERY apprehensive about referencing the mentioned issue because of its political implications, but was equally compelled to springboard off of it to highlight what we have here, and to emphasize what binds us as to what divides us. Thank you all for confirming that.

            • Spinaker
              Spinaker commented
              Editing a comment
              You touched on it, but the point of the post was highlighting the great people in The Pitmaster Club. You danced around it very well! And for that, I thank you, sir! CaptainMike
          • Fire Art
            Club Member
            • Jan 2018
            • 988
            • Jackson hole Wyoming

            I’m a non news watcher for going on 3 years now life is much easier


            • CaptainMike
              CaptainMike commented
              Editing a comment
              Yeah, we cut the cord about a year ago and don't miss any of it. However, I think it's prudent to check into current events. It's almost all BS, but an open mind can glean insight from even the preposterous.

            • Oak Smoke
              Oak Smoke commented
              Editing a comment
              Was it Will Rogers who said that those who don't reed the newspaper are uninformed and those who do are misinformed?

            • CaptainMike
              CaptainMike commented
              Editing a comment
              I think that was Mark Twain Oak Smoke but it's something Will would agree with.
          • Huskee
            Pit Boss
            • May 2014
            • 14536
            • central MI, USA
            • Follow me on Instagram, huskeesbarbecue

              Want a free bottle of whiskey? Check out my link to Flaviar.com, you join with it, we both get a $50 bottle free.

              Smokers / Grills
              • Yoder loaded Wichita offset smoker
              • PBC
              • Grilla Silverbac pellet grill
              • Slow 'N Sear Deluxe Kamado (SnSK)
              • Dyna-Glo XL Premium dual chamber charcoal grill
              • Weber 22" Original Kettle Premium (copper)
              • Weber 26" Original Kettle Premium (black)
              • Weber Jumbo Joe Gold (18.5")
              • Weber Smokey Joe Silver (14.5")
              • Brinkmann cabinet charcoal smoker (repurposed)

              • (3) Maverick XR-50: 4-probe Wireless Thermometers
              • (7) Maverick ET-732s
              • (1) Maverick ET-735 Bluetooth (in box)
              • (1) Smoke by ThermoWorks
              • (1) Signals by ThermoWorks
              • Thermapen MkII, orange
              • ThermoPop, yellow
              • ThermoWorks ChefAlarm
              • Morpilot 6-probe wireless
              • ThermoWorks Infrared IRK2
              • ThermoWorks fridge & freezer therms as well

              • Instant Pot 6qt
              • Anova Bluetooth SV
              • Kitchen Aide mixer & meat grinder attachment
              • Kindling Cracker King (XL)
              • BBQ Dragon
              • Weber full & half chimneys, Char-Broil Half Time chimney
              • Weber grill topper
              • Slow 'N Sear Original, XL, and SnS Charcoal Basket (for Jumbo Joe)
              • Drip 'N Griddle Pan, 22' Easy Spin Grate, and Elevated Cooking grate, by ABCbarbecue
              • Pittsburgh Digital Moisture Meter

              • Favorite summer beer: Leinenkugels Summer & Grapefruit Shandy, Hamm's, Michelob Ultra Pure Gold
              • Fav other beer: DAB, Sam Adams regular, Third Shift amber or Coors Batch 19, Stella Artois
              • Fav cheap beers: Pabst, High Life, Hamm's & Stroh's
              • Most favorite beer: The one in your fridge
              • Wine: Red- big, bold, tannic & peppery- Petite Sirah, Zinfandel, Cabernet Sauv, Sangiovese, Syrah, etc
              • Whiskey: Buffalo Trace, Eagle Rare, E.H. Taylor, Blanton's, Old Forester 1870, Elijah Craig, Basil Hayden's. Neat please.
              • Scotch: Current favorite- The Arran (anything by them), Glenmorangie 12yr Lasanta, sherry cask finished. The Balvenie Double Wood, also like Oban 18yr, and The Glenlivet Nadurra (Oloroso sherry cask finished) among others. Neat please.

              About me
              Real name: Aaron
              Location: Farwell, Michigan- near Clare. (dead center of lower peninsula)

              • Healthcare- Licensed & Registered Respiratory Therapist (RRT) for MidMichigan Health, a University of Michigan Health System.

            Great comments here, y'all makka me cry...


            • grantgallagher
              Club Member
              • Feb 2018
              • 878
              • NJ

              This place is truly unique. Im not a member of any other interweb forums these days but a whiles back when i still played a lot of guitar and even built electeic guitars, i was a member of several guitar forums. Lets just say guitars/music do not bring people together the way they should, lol.

              Echoing all the above, food really does bring people together and this forum is a testament to that.




              Meat-Up in Memphis 2021

              Join us in Memphis for our Meat-Up! Space is limited to 400, secure your spot by booking early!
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              Meat-Up in Memphis

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              Surely you know somebody who loves outdoor cooking who deserves a gift for the holidays, birthday, anniversary, or just for being wonderful. There he is, right in the mirror! Here are our selections of best ideas, all Platinum or Gold Medalists, listed by price.

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              Digital Thermometers Are Your Most Valuable Tool And Here's A Great Buy!

              maverick PT55 thermometer

              A good digital thermometer keeps you from serving dry overcooked food or dangerously undercooked food. They are much faster and much more accurate than dial thermometers. YOU NEED ONE!

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              If you have a Weber Kettle, you need the Slow 'N' Sear

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              Bring The Heat With Broil King Signet's Dual Tube Burners

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              The Broil King Signet 320 is a modestly priced, 3-burner gas grill that packs a lot of value and power under the hood. Broil King's proprietary, dual-tube burners get hot fast and are able to achieve high, searing temps that rival most comparatively priced gas grills. The quality cast aluminum housing carries a Limited Lifetime Warranty.

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              The Good-One Is A Superb Grill And A Superb Smoker All In One

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              Pit Barrel Cooker Smoker

              Griddle And Deep Fryer All In One

              The flat top does the burgers and the fryer does the fries. Use the griddle for bacon, eggs, and home fries. Or pancakes, fajitas, grilled cheese, you name it. Why stink up the house deep frying and spatter all over? Do your fried chicken and calamari outside. Blackstone's Rangetop Combo With Deep Fryer does it all. Plus it has a built in cutting board, garbage bag holder, and paper towel holder. An additional work table on the left side provides plenty of counter space.

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              Pit Barrel Cooker Smoker

              The Pit Barrel Cooker May Be Too Easy

              The PBC has a rabid cult following for good reason. It is absolutely positively without a doubt the best bargain on a smoker in the world. Period. This baby will cook circles around the cheap offset sideways barrel smokers in the hardware stores because temperature control is so much easier. Best of all, it is only $299 delivered to your door!

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              The Undisputed Champion!


              The Thermoworks Thermapen MK4 is considered by the pros, and our team, to be the single best instant read thermometer. Don't accept cheap substitutes.  Click here to read our test results and comprehensive review and why it won our Platinum Medal .

              Compact Powerful Sear Machine For Your Next Tailgater


              Char-Broil's Grill2Go x200 is a super-portable, fun little sizzler made of heavy, rust-proof cast aluminum. The lid snaps shut. Grab the handle and you're off to the party! Char-Broil's TRU-Infrared design produces searing heat while reducing fuel consumption. A 16 ounce LP gas canister is enough to keep you flipping burgers for hours.

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              The Cool Kettle With The Hinged Hood We Always Wanted

              NK-22-Ck Grill

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              G&F Suede Welder's Gloves

              Heat Resistant Gloves With Extra Long Sleeves Hold The Hot Stuff

              If you're using oven mitts at the grill, it's time to trade up. Say hello to these suede welder's gloves. They're heat resistant enough to handle hot grill grates, and flexible enough to handle tongs. The extra long sleeves even let you reach deep into the firebox to move hot logs without getting burned. Our Fave.

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              GrillGrates Take Gas Grills To The Infrared Zone

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              PK 360 grill

              Is This Superb Charcoal Grill A Kamado Killer?

              The PK-360, with 360 square inches of cooking space, this rust free, cast aluminum charcoal grill is durable and easy to use. Four-way venting means it's easy to set up for two zone cooking with more control than single vent Kamado grills. It is much easier to set up for 2-zone cooking than any round kamado. Beautifully designed and completely portable. Meathead says it is his preferrred grill.

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              Our Favorite Backyard Smoker

              The amazing Karubecue is the most innovative smoker in the world. The quality of meat from this machine is astonishing. At its crux is a patented firebox that burns logs above the cooking chamber and sucks heat and extremely clean blue smoke into the thermostat controlled oven. It is our favorite smoker, period.

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              masterbuilt gas smoker

              The First Propane Smoker With A Thermostat Makes This Baby Foolproof

              Set ThermoTemp's dial from 175° to 350°F and the thermostat inside will adjust the burner just like an indoor kitchen oven. All you need to do is add wood to the tray above the burner to start smokin'.

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              Professional Steakhouse Knife Set

              masterbuilt gas smoker

              Our founder, Meathead, wanted the same steak knives used by steakhouses such as Peter Luger, Smith & Wollensky, Morton's, Kobe Club, Palm, and many others. So he located the manufacturer and had them stamp our name on some. They boast pointed, temper-ground, serrated, high-carbon stainless-steel, half-tang blades with excellent cutting edge ability. The beefy hardwood handle provides a comfortable grip secured by three hefty rivets. He has machine washed his more than 100 times. They have never rusted and they stay shiny without polishing. Please note that we do not make, sell, or distribute these knives, they just engrave them with our name.

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              Fireboard: The Ultimate Top Of The Line BBQ Thermometer

              fireboard bbq thermometer

              With the ability to monitor up to six temperatures simultaneously with either Bluetooth or Wifi on your mobile phone, tablet, or computer, Fireboard is the best digital thermometer we’ve tested.

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              Finally, A Great Portable Pellet Smoker

              Green Mountain Davey Crockett Grill

              Green Mountain's portable Davy Crockett Pellet Smoker is one mean tailgating and picnic machine. But it's also gaining popularity with people who want to add a small, set it and forget it pellet smoker to their backyard arsenal. And with their WiFi capabilities you can control and monitor Davy Crocket from your smart phone or laptop.

              Click here to read our detailed review and to order