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Auto-renewal / Storing credit card info

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  • Cayenneman
    Former Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 15
    • Richmond, KY

    Auto-renewal / Storing credit card info

    Just logged on to my back account today and saw that I'm automatically being renewed for my Pitmaster membership. How do I opt out of this? Thanks.
  • Willy
    Charter Member
    • Apr 2015
    • 1854
    • High Desert of the Great Southwest

    #2
    I don't want ANYONE holding my bank information--too many essentially unpreventable hacks--see Target, Home Depot, the Federal Gov't, et al. Even Consumer Reports engages in this. I understand the advantage to the business, but it is a practice that I dislike.

    Comment


    • Meathead
      Meathead commented
      Editing a comment
      I explain below that we NEVER see your card number, and EVERY transaction you make on your credit card is stored by the card processor and bank, autorenew or not. Take a cab, the card number is in the card processor and bak records permanently, and it may also be in the cab company's system, and if it is a card swipe the copy is in the hands of the driver. The process we use is soooooo much safer than handing your card to a cab driver, waiter, or cashier.

    • Karon Adams
      Karon Adams commented
      Editing a comment
      yeah, autorenew are just the computer sending your bank a bill that the bank pays. there isn't any capture of the credit card numbers.
  • Mosca
    Charter Member
    • Oct 2014
    • 3620
    • PA
    • Large Big Green Egg, Weber Performer Deluxe, Weber Smokey Joe Silver, Maverick 732, DigiQ, and too much other stuff to mention.

    #3
    There was an announcement about this a few weeks ago. The software is being updated, and while that is happening TPTB don't want anyone to lose access, so the subscriptions are being automatically renewed without charge, then you can choose to renew when the updating is done.

    Or something like that. The gist was that they aren't charging.

    Edit: I'm not correct, I had it backward.
    Last edited by Mosca; August 10, 2015, 11:28 AM.

    Comment


    • mgaretz
      mgaretz commented
      Editing a comment
      Actually I think the gist was that even though you were charged your membership might still show as expired, but they weren't kicking anyone off while they fixed it, so not to worry if it showed expired.
  • DeusDingo
    Founding Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 1146
    • Madison, WI
    • Weber Q320 grill
      Masterbuilt Propane Smoker
      Maverick and thermo Pen thermometers

    #4
    i got charged so that's not right

    Comment


    • David Parrish
      David Parrish commented
      Editing a comment
      The renewals have been occurring the whole time for folks that had Credit Cards valid beyond the renewal date. For folks with expired credit cards there was a delay while we fixed our CC update process. That works now.

      There is also an issue where member's expiration dates don't update when their membership renews. We are still working on this. We are very aware who has paid and we're not expiring any accounts until we get the expiration dates fixed. Should be soon.
  • Willy
    Charter Member
    • Apr 2015
    • 1854
    • High Desert of the Great Southwest

    #5
    DD and Mosca: Independent of whether or not your interpretations are correct, the fact remains that credit card numbers are apparently being retained. I don't suspect AR of any nefarious motives whatsoever, but I don't like leaving a card number with anyone. When I buy from ITunes, I get a gift card with a $50 amount from a local store like Best Buy, then post that to ITunes. If someone steals the gift card info, I'm out less than $50 and I don't have a real credit card compromised.

    If I'm wrong about the fact that credit card numbers are retained on a server somewhere, please correct me. Meantime, I think of Home Depot and others.

    Comment


    • mackdaddy
      mackdaddy commented
      Editing a comment
      I like your idea of getting a throw away card or iTunes card for online purchases.
  • David Parrish
    Founding Member - Pit Boss Emeritus
    • May 2014
    • 5042
    • Charlotte, NC
      • Slow 'N Sear Kamado (SnSK)
      • Lots of grills that work with Slow 'N Sear
      • LOTS of digital thermometers (my fav)
      • LOTS of accessories
      • Favorite Beer - Fat Tire
      • Favorite Bourbon - Woodford Reserve
      • Favorite White Wine - Cakebread Chardonnay
      • Favorite Red Wine - Yes, Please
      • President/Owner - SnS Grills

    #6
    Cayenneman there is an option to cancel your membership on this page.

    Willy we don't keep your CC #/info and can't see it in our system. It's retained and your payment is processed by a highly reputable third party. For more info on their security measures click here.

    Comment


    • Willy
      Willy commented
      Editing a comment
      I am not saying I don't trust AR. I am saying that somewhere there is a record of my card number (in your words, "It's retained") or else AR wouldn't be able to make a charge to it. If I am missing something, I'm willing to be corrected and educated.

      I do not want to cancel my membership--I just want to know that NO ONE beyond my card company has my card number stored in a data base, no matter how "secure".

      Zero hostility is intended from my post.

    • David Parrish
      David Parrish commented
      Editing a comment
      Willy let's put this in perspective. Meathead is much more likely to get hit by a bus during his daily commute to his basement office than you are to get your CC information stolen using our payment system. Their are billions of credit cards being stored in trillions of locations all over the internet. Thousands of cards get hacked at one time or another. That's an insignificant number. I'm more worried about a sharknado than I am my CC info being stolen by the merchants I use online.

      What you're worried about... just isn't worth worrying about

    • Meathead
      Meathead commented
      Editing a comment
      I have just posted an explanation of the process below. The only one who has your card number is the bank. We don't even see it. And they have your number on file whether it is an autorenewal or not.
  • Cayenneman
    Former Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 15
    • Richmond, KY

    #7
    Originally posted by Pit Boss View Post
    Cayenneman there is an option to cancel your membership on this page.

    Willy we don't keep your CC #/info and can't see it in our system. It's retained and your payment is processed by a highly reputable third party. For more info on their security measures click here.
    That is a dead link you sent me to.

    Comment


    • Mosca
      Mosca commented
      Editing a comment
      It directs me to the Stripe Security page. The important part is here:

      "All card numbers are encrypted on disk with AES-256. Decryption keys are stored on separate machines. None of Stripe's internal servers and daemons are able to obtain plaintext card numbers; instead, they can just request that cards be sent to a service provider on a static whitelist. Stripe's infrastructure for storing, decrypting, and transmitting card numbers runs in separate hosting infrastructure, and doesn't share any credentials with Stripe's primary services (API, website, etc.)."

      No one is going to get your card number.

    • Willy
      Willy commented
      Editing a comment
      Mosca--No offense, but isn't that what the Feds, Target, and Home Depot would tell us also? I have a security clearance and now, evidently, the Chinese also are aware of me. Not a big worry for me personally, but I think my point is made.

      Who in the heck is that fellow? You know, what's his name, um, er, um, oh! I know, Edward Snowden.

      No mal-intent is intended by my sarcasm, but to say "No one is going to get your card number" seems to me to be naive.

    • Meathead
      Meathead commented
      Editing a comment
      Willy When you use your credit card, the bank stores the transaction at a gas station, restaurant, etc. So whether you autorenew or not, your card is on file with the card processor.
  • David Parrish
    Founding Member - Pit Boss Emeritus
    • May 2014
    • 5042
    • Charlotte, NC
      • Slow 'N Sear Kamado (SnSK)
      • Lots of grills that work with Slow 'N Sear
      • LOTS of digital thermometers (my fav)
      • LOTS of accessories
      • Favorite Beer - Fat Tire
      • Favorite Bourbon - Woodford Reserve
      • Favorite White Wine - Cakebread Chardonnay
      • Favorite Red Wine - Yes, Please
      • President/Owner - SnS Grills

    #8
    OK let's try it like this: http://amazingribs.com/pitmaster_club/index.html

    Comment

    • Meathead
      Administrator
      • May 2014
      • 1460
      • Chicago area
      • Remember, no rules in the bedroom or kitchen
        Meathead

      #9
      When you first subscribed it was stated clearly that renewal is automatic, but you can cancel at any time you wish. If you cancel in 90 days you get your money back (that's a pretty good guarantee). But this is important WE DO NOT STORE OR EVEN SEE YOUR CARD NUMBER. The transaction is directly with the bank through a portal. And they store your number whether you renew or not. The process is a whole lot safer than handing your card to a waiter or a clerk at a store! Remember, the big credit card thefts have been at brick and mortar stores (Target, Home Depot, Staples), not websites or banks.

      Why autorenewal? Renewal software is complex and expensive! It needs to track expiration dates for thousands of members, send renewal reminders (nobody wants to get emails from us begging you to renew) and we have to hope the reminders don't get trapped by spam filters (a lot of email is misdirected this way nowadays and people yell at us when it is their spam filter's fault), then we have to deal with complaints if you expire and can't get back in, then we have to manually reactivate you, etc. Finally there are gift subscriptions. We first need to ask the givers if they want to renew and if not we need to ask the recipient. All of this is a massive pain! The whole purpose of the Pitmaster Club is to raise money to keep the site alive and growing, not to spend it all on renewal software! In fact, we no longer offer gift subscriptions because managing them is too complex and expensive. In any case, if you want a refund, screw the 90 day guarantee, I'm happy to issue it. Anytime.

      Comment

      • Meathead
        Administrator
        • May 2014
        • 1460
        • Chicago area
        • Remember, no rules in the bedroom or kitchen
          Meathead

        #10
        One more thing: Trying to renew people via email is a nightmare. In the past year we have had monthly drawings for prizes worth $100 on average. On THREE occasions, we sent a notice to a winner and got no response! It went to spam or who knows what.

        Comment

        • Meathead
          Administrator
          • May 2014
          • 1460
          • Chicago area
          • Remember, no rules in the bedroom or kitchen
            Meathead

          #11
          One more thing: If your membership expires, and you decide to come back, we cannot give you the same user name. The system won't allow it. We don't want another person to join and use a previous member's name. What is he's a spammer or troll? So autorenewal protects your "brand".

          Comment

          • Meathead
            Administrator
            • May 2014
            • 1460
            • Chicago area
            • Remember, no rules in the bedroom or kitchen
              Meathead

            #12
            One more thing, I have just instituted a new policy: If you are autorenewed and you want to cancel, we'll issue a full refund.

            Comment

            • Willy
              Charter Member
              • Apr 2015
              • 1854
              • High Desert of the Great Southwest

              #13
              Just to be clear, my posts were written with zero animosity and I harbor no ill will towards AR for their policy of auto-renewal. I responded because this topic is of interest to me. Also to be clear, in the last five years, my AmEx card has been compromised twice, so assurances that I am extremely unlikely to have card info stolen necessarily ring hollow. I have no idea how the card was compromised, but it has made me more cautious and aware. Based on your comments, Meathead, it is clear to me that I likely don't understand exactly how and by whom card info is handled and stored. My assumption is/was that once a retailer processes my payment, that retailer no longer has my card info. I will learn more.

              On the cooking front, I turned out a very nice rib roast from the rotisserie last night! :«)

              Comment


              • BruceB
                BruceB commented
                Editing a comment
                I have never heard of a card processor being hacked, but I suppose it is possible.
                Lots of credit card processing firms have been hacked, here's just one from this spring. http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/02/tech...each/index.htm (oops - that was a couple of years ago, but it's still happening.)

                I believe it is just inherent in online transactions, a risk that is taken similar to getting in your car and driving to the store, where you use your card anyway and it's probably processed through a third party processing firm.

                Aside form running around with a big bag of cash, I don't see any way around it. I use a card that has low limits, and is closely monitored by my credit union.
                Last edited by BruceB; August 11, 2015, 02:39 PM.

              • Meathead
                Meathead commented
                Editing a comment
                BruceB I had not heard about that hack in 2012. I like your card strategy. And as I say, handing your card to a waiter is much higher risk than our setup.

              • (fuzz)
                (fuzz) commented
                Editing a comment
                I think the most important takeaway from that article is this "no matter what, you're not liable for unauthorized charges made on your account". Banks get robbed, that doesn't mean you lose the money you had at that bank.
            • Stevehtn
              Former Member
              • Sep 2014
              • 117
              • East TN

              #14
              One thing is for sure, imho, the info on the free site alone is worth the yearly subscription. But the pit is worth twice the amount, bugs aside. Identity theft is rampant everywhere, so though we should all be cautious, it's also unrealistic to lock yourself up in a cave. This site is awesome. So easy to ask a question here and get a quick response, and anybody can learn something new. Looking forward to future improvements but thanks to Meathead and all you others for setting this site up.

              Comment


              • mackdaddy
                mackdaddy commented
                Editing a comment
                Ditto!!
            • bep35
              Founding Member
              • Jul 2014
              • 309
              • Pierre,SD
              • 1987 Weber Kettle (Still going!)
                2004 Cookshack Smokette (The original!)
                2012 Weber Genesis (Wonderful for steaks and chops!)
                2014 Pit Barrel Cooker (Lovin it!)
                Thermoworks Thermapen
                Thermoworks Mini Handheld Thermocouple & Meat Needle Probe
                Various other wireless remote thermometers

                Beer...Bud Light (Timeless)

              #15
              I have had my card hacked twice. Both times handing it to another person. The first time a hotel clerk, the second time a waiter. With both incidents the bank took care of everything and none of the unauthorized charges were my responsibility. The bank issued me a new card and life went on. It's the world we live in.

              Comment

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