Dual controllers — PID and Digital

[MtView]

I use PID mode on the Silverbac when I need to hit or maintain a certain temp and smoking isn't the goal. For example, I just cooked a rib roast and kept it at 225 in Pro(smoke) mode until it was time to sear. Then I switched to PID and set the temp to 500.

The Grilla smoke mode is designed to have temp swings to accomplish just what another poster stated about generating more smoke from pellets by needing to build the fire a little higher after the temp drops below the set point.

[GroceryBoy]

Did anybody try the “Heavy D”? Just curious.

[GirlGrilling]

shush, you read my mind. I saw this contraption yesterday in another BBQ forum & was intrigued. First I’ll try using better pellets, then adding chunks, & if that doesn’t work, using this SD contraption. That said, I’m not debating pellet cookers. They all work the same IMO. I have never expected results even close to charcoal or wood; I simply expected to get what I was getting from my Traeger, which seems reasonable to me. But that just ain’t happening on this RT w/the pellets supplied by RT.

[GirlGrilling]

shush, thank you. I have heard of putting chunks directly on the deflector and I’m glad it’s working for you; will also try that. Lord knows, I’ve got plenty of chunks. I’m just disappointed (I guess?) in the quality of RecTec’s pellets: alder, and man, do they smell stink. The smoke is just awful — billowy, white & acrid. So starting out the grill on “extreme smoke” or ‘LO’ won’t do it for me unless I find some better pellets. Thanks for your help.

[Troutman]

I agree with shush, the simple solution is to throw a hunk of wood on the deflector plate and move on. You can debate one pellet cooker versus another until the cows come home. By it's very nature you are not going to get the same results as burning wood or charcoal.

So to take that thought one step further, here's a little contraption that I'm tempted to try out. The only thing that gives me pause is the $100 price tag. If it fits in my cooker though, I think it would solve the problem nicely. It's called the "Heavy D" stick burner deflector plate by Smoke Daddy.....

[shush]

I realize your post said that you get enough smoke, but not the right kind of smoke. I have the RT-680. I wrote this up a while ago, and will just paraphrase here. I found that using pellets will generate smoke, but not quality smoke, so I wrote to RecTec. I got a call from them shortly after hitting send, and spoke with (IIRC) Jason. He suggested that I put chunks of whatever type of wood I want on the heat deflector. They do not get direct exposure to flame, so they smoulder quite well. This way, I use the Competition mix pellets, and then 'assist' with Apple, Pecan, whatever to get the profile I am looking for in the cook. It has worked wonders. I also tend to start my cooks at the lower temps, 'LO' or 210, to build some extra smoke, and then push the temp up... Depending on the type of cook, this doesn't really add a whole lot of time, but certainly improves the bark/flavor. I _think_ that the 700 is built very similarly to my 680, I just drop a few chunks (even mixing types on occasion) on the top of the heat deflector, put the drip tray back in place, the grates, then fire it up! Hope this helps.

[jfmorris]

GirlGrilling glad to help! I don't have a pellet smoker, so don't have a dog in this hunt, but since I may get one some day, and have researched and window shopped them for a couple of years. I want to see you successful in your cooks.

[Nate]

GirlGrilling , Actually I found the thread and edited post 3.0 to include it yesterday morning... it is in red... I also commented in 3.2 that I had done this.... basically the decision is out and your question as to which is superior all depends on what the user is looking for. if rock steady temps are the goal then PID wins... for smoke... there are different schools of thought.

[GirlGrilling]

Nate, thanks. Looks like jfmorris might have found that thread you were looking for, which I just read. Boy, oh boy, how I’d love to do a blind taste-test on two comparable brisket points — one smoked w/PID vs. non-PID. My $$ says you’ll get a different smoke flavor for sure. The temp swings on non-PID just make for better smoke — that’s my working theory, anyway.

In any event, if switching pellets (even a few times) doesn’t do the trick, I’ll be back w/an update.

[GirlGrilling]

Not giving up on the RT yet. Next step will be to change pellets. Just ordered some CookinPellets from Amazon. Fingers crossed. Believe you me, I want to stay with this dang Bull if at all possible.

Thanks again, Jim, for your thoughtful comments & suggestions. Much appreciated.

[GirlGrilling]

THANK YOU! $$ quote from Doc Blonder: “As to which creates ‘more or better’ smoke, I don't really know. One issue w/the PID controllers is they run the fan slowly during part of the cycle, starving the fuel of air, which makes for a darker & more bitter smoke. But w/o the PID, a threshold switch lets the fire burn out naturally, which can also be a problem.” (Explains my acrid smoke & why my non-PID Traeger fire-box went out about every 4 hours, triggering massive pellet dump & raging fire.)

[jfmorris]

Look at what Doc Blonder writes here in the thread Nate referenced: #23
If the fan speed remains constant on the non-PID smoker, and it is controlling the auger rate, versus the fan speed with the PID controller, that could be a factor in what GirlGrilling is seeing.

And... it could just be that Alder wood produces bad acrid smoke that she doesn't like.... I would try another kind of pellet before giving up on the Rectec.

[Nate]

I updated my post to include the link to my PID vs Non PID thread... I was looking for my thread on busting the 225 myth but it must have died in the slaughterhouse or was discretely removed by management for going against the grain lol...

[GirlGrilling]

THANKS Nate. Couldn’t have said it better myself. Agree on all points. Why the obsession w/PIDs?!? Starting on my older-model Traeger, I had NO expectations, other than it would taste better than what I could get from gas, & I’d get at least some smoke flavor. It DELIVERED in spades. Just waiting for more experience before I upgrade to stick.

Researched a lot before buying a new one. Everywhere, all I heard was, “BE SURE TO GET A PID!” Ignorant, I blindly followed. Regretting it now, big time.

[Nate]

Re: from your comment 2.1.

As far as performance and how it is working out.

I started out on a traeger jr. I think that makes a huge difference for some reasons.

When I first got started I didn’t have a stick burner level smoke expectation since I didn’t know any better. My stick burner came later on... So when I decided to buy another pellet cooker I didn’t have this warped delusion that it was going to produce the same level of smoke... I kind of knew what I was getting into.

The whole PID vs Standard controller thing caught my attention from the get go... I actually have some old threads in here where I posted about this same topic and got Doc Blonder in on the conversation. I will see if Here is the PID vs Non PID thread.

Two things about my stick burner experiences made me lean hard towards the standard control vs the PID.

1. 225 is a myth and consistent temps (while they may be something to aspire to) aren’t natural in stick burning. You have temp fluctuations because of air flow, weather, opening lid, etc... and over a multi hour cook a 10 degree swing here and there doesn’t matter much..... also temp drops tell you when you may need to add a log... which brings me to my next point....

2. When adding a log to a stick burner you tend to get a bit more smoke for a bit (unless you pre burn) while it ignites and gets going.

So my thought (and I could be totally wrong but it was my thought) was that I just didn’t care about the swing from a temp standpoint because my oven isn’t rock steady in temps either so..... the PID thing is basically just playing on the fears and mass delusion that if you don’t maintain exactly 225 with no variation for 10 hours cooking your pork butt that it is somehow going to create inferior bbq.

The other reason I didn’t care about the swing was then... if the temp drops a good bit it is going to require more pellets to dump at one time and, like I mentioned in my second point, cause more smoke upon ignition as opposed to just a couple of pellets dropping on occasion.

So I like the cooker. I am happy with the performance (I didn’t have stick burner level smoke expectations). I use standard 99% of the time. I put my meat on during ignition to get that extra few minutes of smoke blast from starting up.

The reason I purchased the dual controller was it just came out less than a month before I purchased my cooker... so it was available in case I one day figured out why PID would be useful... best answer I have is to avoid flame out at low temp settings (sub 235) and maybe with baking.

But I guess the million dollar question is if you did a blind test on PID vs non PID would a person be able to really discern... or is it all in our head?