How does the BBQ from a good offset like a lang or a horizon compare with food from a KBQ? This is assuming you know how to cook with the offset decently. And how hard is it to learn how to cook on an offset?
Even though I'm far from getting a stickburner, a guy can dream right?
Last edited by Anthonyf; November 10, 2017, 05:21 PM.
I am also interested in hearing other's input. I have a Jambo - still waiting to break it in after a crazy summer and insurance issues (I'll post all that once I get it fired up). When I was deciding between it and a KBQ, I made a feature comparison list. Not sure how well this will show up, but I've tried to copy it below. Costs are rough and include estimated shipping.
KBQ
Jambo
$1,600
$2,900
Portable
500#, has wheels but likely not portable
Needs electricity
Nothing external needed
Open fire - spark hazard
Enclosed fire
Components could break down
Nothing to break down
Stainless steel - no rust
Painted steel - could rust
Cooks faster
Cooks normal
Log every 20-30 minutes
Log every hour
960 sq inches
1152 sq inches
60# of meat capacity
80# of meat capacity
No learning curve
Learning curve but even cook
Quality construction
Quality construction
Amazing flavor
Amazing flavor if mastered
Easily adjustable smoke amount
Not sure how to adjust dirtiness of smoke
Looks like a dishwasher
Looks really cool
Could grill on top of fire box
No grilling ability
No 'mastery'
Mastery, feel like pit master
Can't leave controller outside, could damage
No electronics
Cook in good weather, sprinkling rain
Cook in any weather
Need grease pan
Need grease cup, more work to clean
Nothing to go wrong in cook
Fire management could go wrong
"Different" cooker
Expensive version of what everyone's seen
Cookbox, firebox stainless steel
Have to cover with tarp to avoid rusting
No work space
Stainless Steel workspace in front of cook chamber
There are YouTube videos of the KBQ cooking in the rain and many KBQ owners here have cooked while it was snowing. So you're cooking in fair weather is out the window, I believe.
lostclusters I asked Bill Karau about that and he said it should be fine in a light drizzle but not in a heavy rain. I'm in the Seattle area where heavy rain doesn't happen often but is always a possibility any time of day. No criticism of the KBQ, I was very close to getting one, but for my situation the Jambo was the right choice
I cook in snow and rain. If it is raining hard, while not ideal, I simply cover the top of the control box with a stainless pan and keep the lid on the fire box. No problems. lostclusters PBCDad
Hi, my name is Darrell. I'm an OTR truck driver for over 25 years. During my off time I love doing backyard cooks. I have a 48" Lang Deluxe smoker, Rec-Tec pellet smoker,1 Weber Genesis 330, 1 Weber Performer (blue), 2 Weber kettles (1 black and 1 Copper), 1 26" Weber kettle, a WSM, 8 Maverick Redi Chek thermometers, a PartyQ, 2 SnS, Grill Grates, Cast Iron grates, 1 ThermoPop (orange) and 2 ThermoPens (pink and orange) and planning on adding more cooking accessories. Now I have an Anova sous vide, the Dragon blower and 2 Chef alarms from Thermoworks.
Started Low-N-Slow BBQ in 2012. Obviously, it's taken hold (in chronological order:
1.) A pair of Weber Smokey Mountain 22.5's
2.) #LilTex, a 22" Expensive Offset Smoker (looks like a Yoder Witicha)
3.) #WhoDat1, a HUGE Gravity Fed Insulated Cabinet Smoker (cooking chamber 3'x2'x6')
4.) A Full Size Commercial Dryer/converted to Vertical Smoker.
5.) Jambo Backyard stickburner (my FAVORITE Pit so far)
6.) GrillMeister, a huge 24"x48" Adjustable, Charcoal Grill from Pitmaker.com
7.) 22" Weber Kettle with Slow-N-Sear
8.) Vault insulated reverse-flow cabinet smoker from Pitmaker
9.) BarbecueFiretruck...under development
10.) 26 foot BBQ Vending Trailer equipped with HUGE Myron Mixon 72xc smoker is HERE, Oct 2016!
11.) Opened www.PaulsRibShackBarbecue.com Food Trailer officially in March 2017
12.) Austin Smoke Works 500 Gallon Propane Tank Offset Smoker, named "Lucille" as travel pit for PaulsRibShack, Oct 2018.
12.) Opening Brick & Mortar location at 4800 Nelson Rd, Spring 2019. Had a pair of 1,000 Gallon Austin Smoke Works pits, both in RibShackRed for our new place!
Fabulous Backlit Thermapens, several Maverick Remote Thermometers (don't use any remotes anymore), Thermoworks Smoke, Other Thermoworks toys, Vacuum sealer, lots and lots of equipment...
I'm loving using BBQ to make friends and build connections.
I have #theRibList where I keep a list of new and old friends and whenever I'm cooking, I make 1 to 20 extra and share the joy.
Can't wait to hear the responses from folks who have both.
I have the Jambo, and I would not trade it for any smoker. The Stickburner game is super fun! After you get a Kindling Cracker, and procure some at least partially seasoned wood, you will have clean smoke throughout the entire cook after you use it a few times.
I've put food smoked on the Jambo against food we smoked on the Gravity Fed Inslulated Cabinet (wood and charcoal, lots of airflow), against the WSM, and against the Pitmaker Vault Cabinet. Method was cook the same meat on both cookers, same rub, pull at same tenderness. Invite people over and have them taste both. DO NOT TELL THEM WHICH IS WHICH!
Of course it’s the stick burner. You just can’t beat that true wood smoke flavor.
BTW I have a LoneStar Grillz 24X36 offset. For those of you who don’t already know. And wouldn’t trade it for anything except a larger LSG. 😁
EdF, KBQ uses the smoke from the bottom of the fire, and the option of adding in smoke from the top as well. I think it would be an interesting test to compare it to a straight-up offset. Given how much those who use the KBQ love it, and the 5 billion comment long thread, I'm thinking it probably works great!
Whichever makes your heart sing loudest. I researched both and the KBQ would have been a more practical choice for me (smaller footprint, price, etc.) but went with an EOS from Shirley because that's what I really wanted.
Okay......I own a KBQ, but I have to admit.......I still want a true stick burner. The KBQ is an awesome rig and it cranks out some amazing food with little effort. I love every minute of owning it. Since I have pick-up, it's portable. The KBQ also has a great capacity. Not mention you can cook just about anything in it, whether low and slow or Hot and Fast, and it is great to sear on the live fire box.
That being said, I still badly want a big EOS. I don't know what it is. I can feel this pull to get down to the basics of fire management and really learn a live fire stick burner. The way the true masters of the flame do in all of the old school places, or like my good Pit friends DWCowles does with his Lang or Steve B with his LSG or Huskee with his Yoder. If I had to do it over again and I had had a place for a big EOS at the time, I would have gone with the offset. I know, I know, I know the KBQ is amazing, right? YES, it is! But there is something about that learning curve that I feel I missed out on. I want to play with the fire, I want make sure the smoke is thin-blue, I want to sit out by the pit and learn the little twerks of the EOS. Plus, who wouldn't love having 1,000 lbs of steel in the back yard? Call me old fashioned but I really want and need an EOS, not to replace the KBQ, but to indulge in the art of BBQ on a deeper level.
I am not saying I am getting rid of my KBQ, I probably never will, but I do wish I had an EOS. Soon, I will have mine and I can't wait to have them both running.
I feel the same way. And I want both a KBQ and a Lang. And a Jambo. And all the others mentioned in this thread. And I want to win the lottery so I can sit in my backyard every day and play with fire and food.
This is exactly what I feared would happen to me if I went with the KBQ. I knew that it would produce dynamite BBQ and that I would love it, but in the back of my mind I would still fantasize about an offset. So I bought an offset.
From what I've read here and in other places, it seems like the KBQ is like a cheat code that puts out incredible, top-notch BBQ. For EOS, to unlock that top level of incredible BBQ, you need to really learn how to burn a clean fire and maintain the right temperature.
While I also want that instant gratification of BBQ perfection right away, I think I'm also allured by the challenge of being able to make incredible BBQ on a traditional EOS.
I had been searching all over the internet and YouTube on fire management in an EOS and how to burn a clean fire.
One place said that it is a good idea to pre-burn wood like in another smoker. Then when that wood in the other smoker has caught fire and started burning thin blue smoke, it'd be ready to transfer over to the smoker where you're cooking meat on.
Another video I saw, the guy was started with lump charcoal in the offset, put a log or two on top and let it burn out that white smoke while placing another log to the side near the fire. That log was far enough that it wouldn't catch on fire but it would pre-heat. So it would be pretty hot and ready to catch fore when he rolled on onto the burning logs and embers.
That first method seems like it would be able to create the cleanest fire, but I don't know how common that is among people that cook on offsets.
Would the second method of putting on warm logs still create enough white smoke as to give the meat a bad taste? Or if it does emit some white smoke, what could you do to make it quickly go away? I saw other videos where they keep the fire door open to let the log cat h fire quicker.
My attitude as an old f**k is that if I'm getting the kind of results out of the KBQ that I am, I can forgo the self-discipline of stick burning. Like my saxophone analogy, it's a matter of self-satisfaction. If you're willing to go for that kind of mastery, do it. And enjoy the process - that's really what it's all about - getting into the zone.
I just want to make the most amazing food I can for my friends. i want my errors to go undetected by people eating for pleasure. I never want to have to serve food with an apology because it's not the best it could be. The KBQ fit my needs.
Scotch: Current favorite- The Arran (anything by them), Glenmorangie 12yr Lasanta, sherry cask finished. The Balvenie Double Wood, also like Oban 18yr, and The Glenlivet Nadurra (Oloroso sherry cask finished) among others. Neat please.
About meReal name: Aaron
Location: Farwell, Michigan- near Clare. (dead center of lower peninsula)
Occupation:
Healthcare- Licensed & Registered Respiratory Therapist (RRT) at MyMichigan Health, a University of Michigan Health System.
An EOS is a rowboat or a bicycle. The KBQ might be an electric bike or boat with a motor. Sometimes you just want to hear the wind in your ears and not a motor, hear the logs popping instead of a fan. Other times, screw it- let a motor or thermostat & fan do the work! In both cases you get from point A to B with varying levels of satisfaction at the end of the day.
Good analogy. For me it's like the difference between a digital recording of song in my iPod vs. vintage vinyl of Bob Seger's Live Bullet played on my Technics SL1200. The older I get, the more I love the vinyl.
Hey Spinaker, to summarize things, you just want this Big honkin, black steel, tree burnin monster that you grab with your fist to open, whether it be a log ya want to throw in or a big chunk of MEAT to check on. Yeah, you want one & it will be yours. 🌋
Last edited by FireMan; November 13, 2017, 10:50 PM.
Most people don't realize this, but you CAN actually burn a fire that's "too clean". Whaaaaaaa?!?!?!?!?! Did he actually just say that? Why yes, I did.
Aaron Franklin does a great job of describing this in his book. In the sections where he dives into how he approaches the construction of his new smokers, he explains in detail how he fine-tunes the fireboxes, the smoke-stacks and finally, the seasoning times of his wood piles.
Regarding the firebox design, he discovered that fireboxes that are not insulated tend to burn through wood very fast. It takes more wood to maintain internal cook chamber temperatures. In other words, they have a very low mpg fuel efficiency rating for his pits. Contrast that with a Jambo. Fully insulated with ceramic wool or something very similar, and an extremely high fuel efficiency rating because the need to add more wood often is greatly reduced. This sounds wonderful in theory! More for less, right? The problem is that you're trapping heat yes, but the lack of constant smoke flowing through the cook chamber ultimately under-smokes your food. Smoke intensity is very subject to the tastes of the person eating, sure. But if Aaron runs the hottest BBQ restaurant in the country as of right now, he must be doing something right. I have tasted his brisket several times. His brisket is everything they say it is. Ultimately Aaron discovered a compromise in firebox design. A "semi-insulated" firebox. A 250 gallon firebox cut in half, with a 24 inch pipe shoved inside and welded together in the front. A sealed air-gap between the two components.
Now, regarding the smoke-stack design...larger smoke stacks tend to pull harder and stack diameter and length greatly influence the rate of said pulling. Use too large of a stack, and the air and smoke escape the cook chamber too quickly, resulting in quickly cooked food but insufficient color (indicative of smoke intensity). Use too small of a stack diameter and the opposite happens. Foods get great coloring due to smoke lingering around for a longer period of time inside the cook chamber. Stack lengths matter because stacks that are too short won't pull hard enough, and smoke stacks that are too long develop a problem with back pressure. The temperature of the smoke and air are dropping on their way up, and cooler air wants to drop back down, against the pressure of the rising air. Ultimately, you have to strike a balance.
Lastly, the seasoning level of the wood you utilize matters a lot as well. Green wood burns slowly and creates huge levels of (often bad quality) bitter smoke. Wood that is so old from long periods of seasoning often fully ignite so easily and cleanly that they burn up fast and you are left with pure heat and very small amounts of smoke flavor.
Ultimately, what does all this nonsense mean? Well, it means that the "perfect" smoke quality could turn out to be a bad thing. It boils down to your personal tastes, really. Sure, the KBQ puts out spectacular food. Much like an iPod, it's clean. It's clinical. It's shiny and polished. Great sound! But.......still not quite the same as seeing the band live. There's just something about stick burning on an EOS that suits many people. It requires skill, patience and attention to detail. I take a lot of pride in the results I've achieved from putting the work in. Are you that type of person? Does it matter to you? That's up to you to decide.
SteveFromLafayette. My apology to you. I was coming off an argument with a colleague, and my leftover anger escaped in your direction. Sorry about that!
I've run my Klose EOS since '99. One of the first things I did was wrap it with 1" thick ceramic wool with an aluminum flashing exterior. It's almost too insulated. That said, the 'q from both is great. More difference in two cuts of meat that in the respective quality of 'q. The stainless steel wonderpit is definitely easier to run, but it does like its food in bite size pieces compared to the Klose. The former just takes less effort for the same resulting quality meat.
Anthonyf It does have its own little metal roof and shelving around it that keeps most of the weather off. A commercial kit purchased from Sportsmans guide to replace the original lean-to I built. The inside gets thoroughly cleaned every spring. The only exposed steel is the top of the stack and firebox as well as the firebox door. Those get paint touch ups as needed (rarely).
Beefchop Agreed. I feel personally that it's very similar to preburning the wood in a separate burn barrel or burn box. Ms. Tootsie (the pitmaster) of Snow's BBQ in Lexington, TX burns her oak logs down to embers and proceeds to shovel them underneath most of her meat (brisket being the exception, smoked indirectly in a repurposed air tank) and while it doesn't taste bad, it's almost as if there's no smoke at all. The smoke ring is there but it barely penetrates the surface. I could understand the desire to do it her way if the wood of your choice was a very strong wood, like mesquite for instance. But post oak? Oak is probably the cleanest burning wood I've ever used.
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