Originally posted by Timbo54
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KBQ - The "POPPETS"
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Club Member
- Jul 2017
- 534
- Oceanside, CA / Milwaukee, WI
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Mak 1 Star
KBQ-C60 (sold)
Char-Griller Grand Champion XD
Char-Griller Legacy Charcoal Grill
WSM 22.5"
ThermoWorks Smoke
ThermoWorks Thermapen
Rock's Stoker II wifi
Flameboss 500
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I've only used the bottom poppet as not to introduce more variables. It seems to me that you are not drawing clean air from the sides of the coal tray. Almost all of your air is drawn through the firebox and alittle from the KBQ logo and other corners. Like I said more experimenting needs to be done.
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Club Member
- Jul 2017
- 534
- Oceanside, CA / Milwaukee, WI
-
Mak 1 Star
KBQ-C60 (sold)
Char-Griller Grand Champion XD
Char-Griller Legacy Charcoal Grill
WSM 22.5"
ThermoWorks Smoke
ThermoWorks Thermapen
Rock's Stoker II wifi
Flameboss 500
Originally posted by Ericm View PostI played with the poppet positions on my last cook. Learned that I need to keep both poppets open during the cold MN winter, otherwise it struggles to keep temp (250 degrees in 25 degree weather with 13 mph winds).
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Howdy my friend. I do seem to get slightly better bark in colder weather and am thinking that it is because the draw fan runs more, thus more smoke is introduced into the cooking chamber.
Seems right to me anyway as I heard it said by another that in extreme cold weather, that the draw fan almost never stopped running, and his products bark came out darker for that cook.
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I believe the following statements that I have posted here to be correct...
Fire needs a combination of the right amount of oxygen, fuel and heat to burn cleanly and to burn well.
Offset smokers require smaller hotter fires to produce the thin blue smoke most have to work at to produce great BBQ.
The KBQ was invented to help those that "have no clue" when it comes to choosing a piece of wood that fits the need.
It was also made for those that do not want to struggle with learning temperature control nor how to solve smoke quality issues.
The fact is... good fire and smoke management is considerably easier with a KBQ smoker versus an offset smoker and THAT is why my offset sits idle today.
On another note, there are many that have used an offset, and find the KBQ smoke to be so clean that the product seems as if it were cooked in a kitchen oven.
I also know that with a good coal bed, and by keeping the top poppet closed, the meat will spend several hours in thin blue wispy smoke with the results being that most of the eaters cannot even tell that the meat was cooked in a smoker.
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The KBQ fire box burns wood quite well with the lid off as sufficient oxygen is drawn easily from both of the side openings.
In fact, combustion occurs in the KBQ's fire box quite well without the the draw fan running at all.
(I know this because I pull the fire box off of my KBQ cook box and sit it on the side of my driveway to cook hot dogs)
Next, with the lid on, the draw fan needs to run to draw oxygen through the two open sides to oxygenate the fuel and fire, because as soon as the draw fan stops, the fire is somewhat smothered and does not burn as hot nor as clean.
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Oxygen being drawn down through the coal tray holes increases the coal beds temperature, the heat in the firebox, and the heat in the cooking chamber.
Smoke being drawn down through the coals is purified and refined, producing the clean smoke most strive for in BBQ.
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Again I am reminded that Aaron Franklin uses nothing but over-the-fire smoke to produce arguably the best brisket known to mankind.
He does not have problems with the quality of the smoke nor temperature of the air because he knows what he is doing with wood, fire and smoke in his offsets.
His product is also smoked with a very forgiving wood, Post Oak.
He would have huge problems if he were to switch to Mesquite, GUARANTEED.
I personally believe that the smoke that bathes Aaron's product contains a combination of very clean smoke (the type that our KBQ produces with bottom poppet smoke only) AND some smoke that is heavier in its flavor profile... a mixture of heavy, medium and light smoke, with the majority of the smoke being light in its composition.
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It is true that many KBQ owners use the bottom poppet exclusively, and that they are quite happy with the extremely clean flavor profile that comes with a good coal bed and bottom poppet smoke only.
I personally am searching for more smoke flavor in my product.
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Remember my friends, the first KBQ's that Bill Karau sold had NO top poppet.
Bill's first smokers produced such clean smoked Q, that he realized his mistake, and designed the ones most of us now own, which give us the opportunity to add more smoke flavor to the product.
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Also know that most KBQ owners will agree that chicken needs to be cooked hot and fast and will need some top poppet use, or most everyone will never even know that you used a smoker to cook that "yard-bird."
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Yes, the holes in the coal tray will get plugged up from time to time. (Especially with Pecan wood)
I can tell because the temperature will start to slowly drop with the draw fan running continually.
If I look thru the view port (KBQ letters) I do not see good inverted flame anymore.
I "kill" the power and use the tool provided to clean all eight coal tray holes quickly.
When I restore power, the temperature climbs up quickly again and with the bottom poppet open the "roar" returns.
Also, in looking thru the view port I can once again see good inverted flame.
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BBQ_Bill Agreed.
I’m still learning and while as a Floridian, I can’t speak to cold weather and bark quality having a proportional relationship of sorts, I can comment on the use of the "Top Poppet" and quality of smoke. My family prefers the milder clean smoke, and we have been able to pull off some awesome BBQ relying solely on the bottom poppet.
As usual, there may be an exception to the rule. My first tests revealed that skimping on wood allowed gases from an incomplete combustion to find their way into the cooking chamber, even though the top poppet was closed.
I was about to give up on Oak. Fortunately, Karau took my call and in just a few minutes into our conversation, he successfully diagnosed one of my rookie mistakes. I needed to add more wood.
Problem solved for good. I keep the firebox well fed, force the smoke through an evenly distributed and well lit coalbed, which in turn produces a very clean smoke and satisfying results for my peeps.
In summary, I would say that even with the top poppet always closed, results can be too smokie for some pallets if the firebox is running with unevenly lit coals, with visible port holes and an incomplete combustion that produces more creosote which ofcourse gets drawn into the cooking chamber.
Ricardo
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Ricardo
Yes my friend, the coal tray holes open up due to ash falling thru, and not enough larger hot coals above to cover that hole.
Not such a "rookie" mistake, as we all have to guard against this from happening.
While it is quite true that when these holes open up, and heavier dense smoke makes its way into the cooking chamber below, if I shut down the power, and tamp down the wood/coals above that "Rat Hole" as Bill Karau calls it, all is well.
These Rat Holes also allow cold ambient air to enter the cooking chamber, and that cooler air REALLY cool things down in there.
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I try not to stress, and simply remember that smoke on the product is ACCUMULATIVE and a bit of dark smoke will not cause any problems if the cause of that heavier smoke is corrected within a reasonable time frame.
While it IS true, that Mr. Hyde type creosote can be so thick and heavy that in just minutes, the product can be so bad it needs to be rinsed off with hot water, our KBQ machines are not like offsets, where two minutes of thick black oily smoke can severely coat the product and make it bitter.
Especially with Hickory in my experience.
(Had to rinse some offset smoked steaks well to save them one time)
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Basically, with the lid off, I think that I would have a hard time coating the product with really thick black smoke due to the sides of the fire box being open as well.
Air can get to the fire from three major openings, so it's no big deal in my way of looking at it.
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Yes, I do believe if one were to "work at it" they could ruin product, but I truly believe that it would take some time to get that to happen.
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I've mentioned and posted pics in one of the other KBQ threads - I just use distilled white vinegar, dampen a paper towel, dab the dirty area, let it set for a few seconds and then wipe. Works well for me. The fan blades don't really need to be kept really clean but you do want to clean the sensor (in the spring thingy) when it gets nasty.
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Originally posted by BBQ_Bill View PostI believe the following statements that I have posted here to be correct...
Next, with the lid on, the draw fan needs to run to draw oxygen through the two open sides to oxygenate the fuel and fire, because as soon as the draw fan stops, the fire is somewhat smothered and does not burn as hot nor as clean.
MAN, the more I understand about the KBQ the more I realize Bill is a GENIUS!!!
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Agreed!
The thick, nasty smoke from fire that is choked by the lid, goes thru the coals and is purified giving you a lot of great smoke in the cooking chamber.
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The way I see it, the KBQ inverted flame that cleans up the heaviest of cooking wood smokes is THE best thing to come to BBQ since man started cooking with fire!
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I use a large rather stiff tooth brush and compressed air to break loose and remove the majority of the soot from the fan blades, including the guard, base, and spring/bulb areas.
This is my standard procedure before installing the fan/control unit on the KBQ for a smoke session.
Karau also offers his instructions regarding cleaning this area, and explains the do's and don'ts.
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I ran both poppets wide open for a 7-thick-ribeye-steak smoke yesterday.
Cut wood to around 7" in length to keep a space between the wood and the top poppet.
Placed/Kept the wood towards the KBQ port side of the firebox. (Up against the side opposite to the poppets)
When it was time to add wood, I killed the power, closed the top poppet, tamped down on the wood and coals hard, breaking up the coals in the tray to cover the holes there, added the fresh wood, turned the power back on, waited until the fans were running full speed again, opened the top poppet back to the fully open position, and then replaced the lid.
I followed this procedure for the entire cook/smoke.
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According to the eaters, they were the absolute best Ribeyes I have ever cooked/smoked.
(It just keeps getting better and better)
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Placed the steaks into the KBQ pre-heated to a 210°F average after a roaring Mesquite sear.
Pulled each rack out...
Buttered, spritzed, rubbed with my newly developed steak rub, spritzed again, and then smoked them to a 130°F internal temperature.
As each one hit that temperature, I pulled them to rest a bit.
They went on pre-heated glass plates at 145°F.
Here is a photo of the fan port right after the cook/smoke.
NICE tan... man!
LUV these machines!
BBQ_BillLast edited by BBQ_Bill; January 7, 2019, 08:34 AM.
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My fellow KBQ owners...
After working with the poppet settings for the last three years and not succeeding to fully accomplish the results that I am wanting, I've decided to build an adjustable smoke density component as an experimental attempt to get a heavier smoke profile in my KBQs with ZERO fly ash in the cooking chamber.
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Basically, I have been needing more smoke on the meat in 9 to 10 hours with no added ash and so far... I simply cannot make it happen, even with Mesquite!
So... I have designed and drawn up a "Smoking Add-On" that in no way will void the warranty on the KBQ smoker.
It does not change the original design in the least and needs no tools to install.
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We will see how well it works as I still need to manufacture these stainless steel parts on a lathe and then prove them out.
Will keep you all posted with results and photos.
Smoke On!
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Club Member
- Jul 2017
- 534
- Oceanside, CA / Milwaukee, WI
-
Mak 1 Star
KBQ-C60 (sold)
Char-Griller Grand Champion XD
Char-Griller Legacy Charcoal Grill
WSM 22.5"
ThermoWorks Smoke
ThermoWorks Thermapen
Rock's Stoker II wifi
Flameboss 500
I have been thinking about this for a while now. I believe that there should be a poppet about 3 - 4 inches above the plate with the holes in it for the coal bed. This should put this poppet at or just above the coal bed. I believe a poppet at this location would capture smoke that is more desirable. That is to say smoke that would provide a more desirable smoke profile on the finished product. More smoke flavor from less dirty smoke but not as clean as it is pulled through the coal bed. Top poppet smoke can be a bit too nasty at times and I believe adding this or relocating the top poppet to this location can avoid this and add the smoke flavor many of us are looking for.
What do you think KBQ ? What would something like this cost to have made?
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I looked at my firebox today and noticed at the dimension I specified above is about where the top poppet is. So I will modify my statement above and say it could be midway between the coal bed plate and the top poppet.Last edited by lostclusters; November 18, 2019, 09:38 AM.
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rscurry the ash is called "fly ash".
It is very light in weight, wispy, whitish in color, and pretty much tasteless on the meat due to the rich flavor of the bark and gelatin plus the spices there on the surface.
Unless you have a larger quantity and place it in your mouth by itself, you probably wouldn't be able to taste it.
It generally hides as soon as it is moistened, and resides there on the surface of darker meats, like on bark covered pork shoulder or on bark covered beef brisket.
The area near the rear of the cook box, next to the manifold, and closer to the top is where I see it most.
At times it coats the top couple of racks, near the back, again, next to the manifold.
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When smoking salmon, I clearly see it on the very light colored surface of the meat, and it bugs me.
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My best guess is that it is totally harmless and might even be healthy in small amounts. Haha!
Okay...
there are methods or procedures that us KBQ users can follow to minimize the amount of fly ash that makes it into the cooking/smoking chamber and possibly onto the meat.
1) Keep a 5" or greater gap between the meat and the back edge of the rack it is on. If a packer brisket, place it within a fingers width from the front door.
2) ALWAYS close at least the top poppet and shut off the power BEFORE adding wood.
3) Once poppets are closed and power is off, either open the door, or if you dont want to open the door, simply wait just a smidge before adding wood because...
A) The draw fan is still pulling air as it winds down. (But cannot draw if the door is open)
and...
B) The area around the top poppet as well as the poppet itself can warp slightly in time, and NOT seal as well as it did when the unit was new.
4) Next, add fresh wood and then tamp that wood downward there on the top in the firebox with a fair amount of force to break up the coals below sitting on the coal grate at this time.
5) Pull/pry this freshly added wood towards the KBQ side, and away from the top poppet.
6) Turn the power back on.
7) Open the bottom poppet.
8) Wait a few seconds and crack the top poppet open to about 1/4".
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NEVER tweak nor adjust, nor mess with the wood in the firebox when the poppets are open and the draw fan is running.
The top poppet seems to be the main contributor to fly ash in the cook/smoke chamber, so running with it closed all the way, all the time helps reduce the fly ash.
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To my knowlege there is no modification nor add-on available at this time that is being used to filter out the ash and prevent it from entering the cooking/smoking chamber of our smokers.
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I am sure there are other KBQ owners with more stuff to say about this, but right now I cannot think of any other hints/helps to give you.
Smoke On!Last edited by BBQ_Bill; November 16, 2019, 11:36 PM.
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