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Which cooker for best bark?

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    Which cooker for best bark?

    Good day all,

    A friend of mine and I were debating the finer points of brisket prep last night. He's currently using an electric smoker, and is pining for a pellet pooper, but money is tight and I suggested he look at the PBC if he wanted to up his brisket game, as it's cheaper and nearly foolproof and the results speak for themselves.

    He then launched into a diatribe that charcoal sucks and bar none the best method for brisket is propane, which baffled me.

    I tried to explain that in my experience, combustion gasses and smoke from wood or charcoal impart a great deal of flavor into the meat, whereas propane merely provides heat. His answer was "propane makes the best bark." I don't think he understands how pellet poopers work. I tried to explain that the propane (or electric heating element) is only used to ignite the wood pellets, not as the primary heat source. Then I tried to tell him that pellet cookers aren't smokers, they're more like a wood oven - but still not a propane cooker... but he also wanted none of that conversation.

    I had to stop at that point because I was clearly talking to a man who had no idea what he was talking about but was utterly convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was right. And if years of political discussions on social media has taught me anything, it's that trying to talk logic to those people is a complete waste of time. He also wraps his brisket in foil at 165, which I tried to tell him will adversely affect his bark, which he also dismissed quickly.

    Opinions are opinions, so I'm willing to let him have his.

    So... even though I'm done with that conversation (he can eat sub-standard brisket if he wants, it doesn't hurt me in the slightest) it still got me thinking...

    what fuel/method makes the best bark in your estimation?

    I have never actually tried to slow cook anything in a propane cooker, so I have no idea what kind of bark it's capable of but it seems like without combustion gasses, it would be like cooking it in a gas oven, and if you're going to do that, might as well just cook it in the oven. And do you find your bark to be more of a function of the rub than the heating method? Vice versa? Or a function of both equally?

    #2
    Have you fed him some real brisket? Maybe that would convince him?

    As to the question, I have only cooked brisket with charcoal and wood chunks on a wsm. I have used various rubs, but my new favorites are Hanks and Meatheads BBBR (I have some Black Ops waiting in the cupboard for my next cook though). I have had good bark with all of them, but the technical reasons for the results are beyond my understanding.

    Comment


    • Buck Flicks
      Buck Flicks commented
      Editing a comment
      His brisket is already pretty darn good, in his electric smoker.

    • klflowers
      klflowers commented
      Editing a comment
      Sounds like he knows what he is doing then. I ASSumed he didn't, from your discussion.

    • Buck Flicks
      Buck Flicks commented
      Editing a comment
      He knows what he's doing with his electric. And a pellet cooker won't steer him wrong, either.... I just don't want him to get a propane grill and expect the same results.

    #3
    Dang, too bad your friend is holding so hard to his bias, much to his detriment. Oh well, like you I refuse to beat my head against the wall against things like that.

    That's a great question you pose there, and I'm sure the debate will be lively. I have no experience with a stick burner, but the general consensus is that they form the best bark. My pellet pooper forms a very acceptable bark, but the kettles do the best job of my cookers. So with that, I believe bark formation is a function of what you mention (gasses and rub) with the addition of the Maillard reaction and caramelization. That is ProfessorMike's highly uneducated wild guess. I've never tried a L&S cook in a propane grill, but with the addition of wood chunks for smoke I don't see why it wouldn't work.
    Last edited by CaptainMike; March 22, 2019, 09:42 AM.

    Comment


    • Buck Flicks
      Buck Flicks commented
      Editing a comment
      Wait. Are you a Captain, or a Professor? How should I address you? ;-)

      I agree - he's dead set against charcoal, and that's his loss.

    • CaptainMike
      CaptainMike commented
      Editing a comment
      Hahaha, mostly a BS'er. My best friend was complaining about how he cant get a good sear with his old worn out infrared so I offered him one of my 22" Webers with SnS. He said he didn't want to have to "deal" with the charcoal. With as straight a face as I could muster I told him yeah, those little buggers are tough to deal with.

    #4
    Possibly diagnosed as a mild case of the Dunning Kruger effect. Best plan is to nod head and walk away.

    Comment


    • CaptainMike
      CaptainMike commented
      Editing a comment
      The Dunning-Kruger effect: "The cognitive bias of illusory superiority comes from the inability of low-ability people to recognize their lack of ability." That describes most politicians.

    • Oak Smoke
      Oak Smoke commented
      Editing a comment
      Dunning Kruger effect, that is a whole new label for a person I know. I won't use it, but I can think it! Phrase of the day winner Donw.

    • Buck Flicks
      Buck Flicks commented
      Editing a comment
      Haha... I think it is probably more due to the fact that he loves to argue with me. He's usually pretty open minded. He just likes to wind me up.

    #5
    I guess you can't fix the way some people think so I don't even try especially when they seem so convinced that everything they say is correct. Quite honestly I never was into smoked meat until I had some real smoked meat that I cooked myself, to me that was a game changer as well as an eye opener. I can't bring myself to cook on a propane grill since, and my first smoker was a pellet pooper. I have moved on to a Lang then a weber kettle and added a Kamodo Joe to the line up. And I also still have 2 pellet smokers with the newest addition being a Blazn Grill Works Grid Iron.

    Comment


    • CaptainMike
      CaptainMike commented
      Editing a comment
      Yeah buddy, I'd love to see your back yard!!

    #6
    I have not been able to convince myself to buy a gasser. Last time I went to get a gasser I ended up with a wsm. I know I need one, but I can't pull the trigger.

    Let's see "It sounds to me like you may be experiencing some of the effects of Dunning Kruger. Have you had anyone check for that?" I can probably work that into several conversations a day.

    Comment


      #7
      On beef. all I use for a rub is salt and pepper. That gives me a great bark. On pork, I usually run with MMD - great bark there too. And whatever is cooked on a kettle.

      Funny story - we has some people over once, and I offered to plate some pulled pork for one of the ladies because I had just gotten some for myself, and she said "OK, but I don't want any of the burned pieces". I said Great! - that leaves more for me. She gave me a look and asked for one piece of the burned part. Next time she got more pork, I noticed she didn't skip the burned stuff. BUT she never said a word...

      Comment


      • Buck Flicks
        Buck Flicks commented
        Editing a comment
        "It's not burned, it's bark" is lost on some people. She learned but didn't want to admit it.

      #8
      I have a homebuilt cabinet type gasser that I manufactured.
      It has a very large cooking chamber that is insulated. I started smoking / learning on this unit around 16 months ago.
      I love my gasser and the bark I get is just as good as what I get from my kettle.
      I prefer the gassers end product vs kettle. That is mainly due to my dislike of the "chemical smell" and taste from briquettes (I do add wood chunks as well).
      The smoked meat from my gasser has a much cleaner taste profile, and I get a decent smoke ring.
      I have discussed my dislike of briquettes and I suspect it may be the quality of the local brands. I have tried many different brands even those that say no chemical additives used, still doesn’t do it for me.
      Briquettes have been a dislike of mine for plenty years and avoided using whenever possible throughout my Braai-ing life. I find charcoal slightly better but still not acceptable to me.
      I use a water pan in my gasser with wood chips or sometimes even chunks of wood. The water helps the smoke adhere to the meat better and I don’t replenish the water for the last couple hours of the cook to help with a better bark.

      I do not say this is the same for all gassers but mine certainly gives me better overall results.
      I am still fairly new to kettle cooking but think I am thereabouts to decipher that I prefer the gassers end product.
      I have cooked on the kettle using only wood coals from a fire on the side.
      The effort did not give me any significantly better result than I get from the gasser.

      Comment


        #9
        It's humorous how so many times something someone has & has experience with is automatically the best. "My dad always drove Ford so I do too and Ford is the best"-- (or what state you live in, hahaha just a friendly jab, you know who you are) that kinda thing. A wise person tries many things to find his actual favorite for his own reasons.

        A good friend of mine uses a propane smoker and insists it's the best (that's the only smoker he has). His food is AWESOME, but it's not my favorite. He also insists he has to go 24hrs with pulled pork. I disagree. He disagrees with me, 12 with a wood fire is not enough for "real pulled pork" but 24hrs with propane *is*. Who's right? I guess if you don't feel like those extra 12hrs are wasted, then whomever had fun doing what they like to do, and likes their end product, is right.

        Comment


        • EdF
          EdF commented
          Editing a comment
          Human nature in general! ;-)

        #10
        Enough has already been said, but pass this article on to your buddy. (And tell him to join The Pitmaster Club!)

        Comment


          #11
          My experience has made me think of the air movement and moisture (or lack of) inside whatever cooker I am using is what affects the bark the most. Without a water pan my KBQ with constant drier heat/air flow will make better bark, sometimes too dry on long cooks if I am not attentive. I think because it moves moisture away from the meat faster/more efficient than my other cookers.

          Comment


            #12
            Seems like airflow has a major affect of bark. We beat to death the analysis of meat fiber and collagen breakdown vs temperature and time , but we don’t have a lot of analysis with creating bark with a wide range of variable excursions.

            Comment

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