Low gasser temp - or do I have unrealistic expectations? Long Post!!!

[Hugh]

I have a Weber Genesis II 3 burner running natural gas. I've have been fighting this for a couple of years. I feel that my grill temps are low. I don't know how to 'prove' this. Maybe I'm just expecting too much and I should get over it. Maybe there is an issue that can be resolved.

Weber says their BBQ's run between 500 to 550. I did another test today. I pulled everything out of the BBQ including Grill Grates, sizzler diffusers, and the plates under neath the burners. It was empty. Sure enough when I cranked up 3 burners, it quickly went to 525. Puzzling.

Note: I am just using the temperature gauge provided by Weber. My iGrill got too hot and quit working, I had it on the warming rack.

Then I put everything back in. I heated it again. I left it heating for 50 minutes. This time it only heated to 450 and it took a long time to get there. I used my IR gun on the Grill Grates and they showed around 500 degrees.

Why would the BBQ be 75 degrees cooler with the internals in it? I would have thought, given enough time, that it would heat to the same point.

The other thing I find odd is that when I put one burner on Max for a low and slow, I can barely hit 225. When I put a big hunk of meat on, the temp drops and I have to put on a second burner. It frustrates me then too because with two burners on minimum the lowest it will run is 265. I have this dead zone of say 210 to to 260 I can't hit which is a pretty critical range.

Meathead talks about cooking with a fry pan on the BBQ. I put a cast iron pan right on the sizzle diffusers (removed grates) and I couldn't even get my sauce to simmer, let alone boil.

I hear of others cooking low and slow with less than one burner. I hear you guys talk about Grill Grates at 700 degrees. Not happening here. I did smash burgers on the Grill Grates yesterday with stove on MAX before hand to warm up. I had the burgers on the grill for 4.5 minutes and they were ok but I would have liked them a little darker. That sounds like along time on side 1 based on what I read here.

I have had feed back before that my gas line is too long and too small. Had another plumber tell me that he doesn't buy it.

So, what to do?

I noticed today that all my internals are in rough shape - lot of build up and rust and oxidation. They are the cheap blue ones, not stainless steel. Could this reduce the heat generated in the BBQ? Would clean stainless ones make a difference?

Should I change to propane and see if this fixes it? Can it even be done?

Should I just live with what I've got and get over it? I don't need to cook low and slow on the gasser, I prefer the Kettle/SnS and the PBC. Hot and Fast and grilling work just fine. I can use other options for griddling.

Feedback welcome

[JPGators17]

Thanks for posting this, as I just tried to reverse sear steaks last night by putting a cast iron pan on my Kitchen-Aid gas grill and couldn't get it hot enough. But my grill doesn't work properly, so I assumed this problem would go away when I get a Genesis. Now I wonder.

[fzxdoc]

This info from a perhaps-dubious-yet-probably-accurate source:

Another benefit of LP is that it contains much more energy than natural gas. A grill's cooking capability is rated in British thermal units (BTU). A BTU is the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of 1 pound (0.45 kg) of water 1 F (0.56 Celsius). A cubic foot of natural gas contains something like 1,000 BTU of energy. One cubic foot (1 ft³) of propane contains perhaps 2,500 BTU. Grills typically range from 20,000 BTU to about 50,000 BTU. A higher BTU rating normally indicates a larger grill with a greater cooking surface.

We have LP fueling our home for heat and also for fueling my gasser. I can easily get Grill Grate temps of 700+ on my Weber Summit gasser.

Kathryn

[Hugh]

I'm tempted to pay a plumber to come over and convert it to propane just so I can rule out it out if it doesn't work. I'm fed up having a $1,000 BBQ that can't simmer tomato sauce!

How did you make out on your griddle stove? You made me go look at a stove for my set up and I ended up with a small portable Camp Chef Everest. My outdoor kitchen would be perfect if I could just get 75 more degrees out of this gasser.

[fzxdoc]

Still working on the outdoor stove, Hugh . We've had tons of company this month and more to come so it's hard to get time to order, assemble, then play with a new toy. I'm hoping things will settle after the first week in June so I can get going on it.

K

[NapMaster]

Hello, sounds like lots of potential issues so it's hard to focus on where to start looking.

You mentioned a lot of rust on the inside. Have you observed your burners directly when lit? I would start there to insure fire is burning at each hole in the burner. If not, I would pull each burner and clean it. Make sure every hole is open so gas can pass. Alternatively, just put in new burners, stainless if available.

Second, you need to make sure your unit is set up properly for NG. If you purchased a propane ready pit, and then hooked it to NG, you will never reach the temps you want. Different fittings are needed.

Lastly, I strongly doubt your gas line is the issue. It could be but I would look other places first.

Rhett

[Hugh]

Thank you for the help.

I should of mentioned it, but yes the first thing I checked was the burners. All holes were clean and everything was burning blue.

It was purchased as a Natural Gas BBQ so it was never set up for propane. I have had a different BBQ converted to propane in the past, and I'm wondering if propane would help. I understand that in converting to propane you need to use a smaller injector (?) since propane burns hotter.

[RichieB]

If you convert to propane, contact weber to get the right regulator. I think we have the same grill. I've had no issues. I had a bulk install as I heat the house and water with propane. I made sure I had the right regulator for the plumber to use.

[Hugh]

RichieB - I called Weber a few weeks ago and when I mentioned converting to propane they were not interested in helping. Said they don't sell the parts. Not sure why I got that response.

[Donw]

I’d check the flexible gas line that connects to your rigid gas line by blowing air through it. Had almost the same problem with my grill. Changed out all the parts but still low heat. Went out and bought a new gas grill and connected it to the same flexible line. Had the same problem. Blew line with air and out popped several insect cocoons. Son took old grill home and has been using it without any problems since.

[Hugh]

Donw - can't find air compressor attachment so could only use my lungs. Definite resistance but I don't know what it is supposed to be like. I opened the valves on the bbq and blew into the gas inlet and it had more resistance than the hose. Do you know if the hose should blow freely?

[Donw]

I removed the line from the grill and the regulator so there should be no resistance in that state. In my setup the hard gas pipe comes out of the ground and is topped by a regulator. My flexible line goes from the regulator and then to the grill where it screws on.

[Hugh]

Blew out the line using the neighbour's air compressor. Seems to be clean. The hunt continues.

[LA Pork Butt]

I am aware that natural gas temps can’t get to same high temps ad propane. If I remember correctly my friend had a natural gas grill and his high temps were in the neighborhood of low 400s. I had an old Char-Griller propane gasser that could reach 550. I would think conversion to propane would up your high temps.

[Eli]

I have a broil king which I run on natural gas and have no issue getting to higher temps. I would bet its not simply a gas versus propane issue.

[Hugh]

Cleaning the orifice is next.

[Old Glory]

I would agree I have a DCS that is running on natural gas and it gets wicked hot.

[bten]

I just converted my grill from propane to natural gas. I don't see a difference in the heat produced. If the jets are sized right, the heat should be similar. I have a Delta Heat grill, and used their conversion kit. I have heard that Weber does not support conversions of their grills. Some people do it, but it voids the warranty.

[Hugh]

Progress, I think. I removed the heat diffusers and just left the Grill Grates on. The internal temp went just over 510 according to the Weber thermometer. This is 60 degrees hotter than with the diffusers in.

I used my IR thermometer on the Grill Grates and the temps were 630 - 700 degrees. This is a 100 degrees hotter than when I had the diffusers in.

I think I need a new set of diffusers.

[bten]

you might want to look at SS diffusers. The transmit the heat better than porcelan coated ones.

[NapMaster]

Hugh, I would still investigate that hose a little more. I would remove it and bring it somewhere to blow that thing out. Maybe run a coat hanger down it to see what comes out.

I'm with those that believe the temps should be similar with NG and propane assuming the jets are correct and everything is working properly. Also, NG is a small fraction of the cost of propane unless you purchase propane in bulk. Even when buying in bulk, NG is still cheaper.

Good luck

[Hugh]

I've blown mine out, and I went to Home Depot yesterday and blew threw a replacement hose. It had the same resistance as mine.so I've ruled out the hose.

[Red Man]

Propane does have more BTUs per cubic foot than natural gas, however the orifices are smaller for propane so the BTU output of the grill should be the same. Natural gas is so much cheaper than propane, I wouldn’t even consider converting.

I have a natural gas genesis. It’s not great for searing on it’s own. I don’t have grill grates, but when I put a cast iron skillet on it, it’ll get smoking hot and give an excellent sear.

The first thing I would check would be your natural gas pressure with the grill running. You will need an HVAC tech to check this properly. If the regulator on your gas meter is reducing the pressure too much you won’t get enough gas to your grill. An undersized gas line could definitely cause this problem as well. This could also be checked by an HVAC tech. You could also ask the tech to clock your meter to determine how many BTUs your grill is burning.

Since you you probably don’t have the tools to check gas pressure, I’d recommend you clock the meter to determine how many BTUs your grill is putting out. This will tell you if you’re burning as much gas that the grill is rated for. If you aren’t it could be an undersized gas line, low gas pressure, plugged or undersized orifices. You’ll need to know how many BTUs per cubic foot is in the gas your burning. 1000 BTUs per cubic foot is a rough standard. My local gas supplier has 1050 BTUs per cubic foot. Shut off all other gas appliances, including pilots such as your water heater, fireplace, etc. Light your grill and set all burners on high. Go to your gas meter. There should be multiple dials. The smallest dial is usually 1/2 cubic foot. Every time the dial makes a full revolution, that means 1/2 cubic foot of gas has passed through the meter. Set a stopwatch and determine how many cubic feet of gas are used in one minute. Multiply by 60 to convert to cubic feet per hour. Then multiply by BTUs per cubic foot of your gas. 1000 works as a rough number if you don’t have the exact number. This will give you the amount of BTUs your grill is using. If it’s close to what you’re rated for, it’s doing all it can. If it’s way low, you aren’t getting enough gas and need to figure out why.

Feel free to ask me if you have any questions.

[Hugh]

Gas technician coming Monday morning! Thanks for helping.

[jfmorris]

A full replacement set of Grillgrates will trap heat below the grate, leading to lower dome temperatures than with the Weber grates. Maybe that is what you are seeing?

That said, your temps seem low to me. I have a Genesis II 4 burner, with a full set of Grillgrates, and on propane hit 600 to 700 on the dome thermometer and at the grate in 15 minutes on high. I usually cook on low to medium to get 350 to 400. I’ve fried on the grates in a skillet as well.

[Hugh]

I'm just plain jealous. All three burners on high last nite to hit 450 took over 30 minutes. Sigh.

[bten]

What is the hose size and length going to your grill? When I converted mine, i went with a 1/2" hose 10 feet long, to make sure there was enough gas going to the grill. You may want to take the grates and diffusers off and look at the flame heights. First, turn one burner up to full open, and notice the flame height. Next turn on the other two burners and see if the first one's flame height goes down. If it goes down, it means you are not getting enough gas to the grill. Hose size and length can affect the amount of gas that gets to the grill. Too long and/or too small in diameter hose will cause this, as well as blockage or a bad or too small regulator.

[Hugh]

I've got the factory Weber hose which is 3/8 inch. I blew through a 1/2 hose yesterday at Home Depot just to see the difference. I found them to be the same. I realize this is a very rough test. I will keep this on the list, but I'm struggling with using a different connector hose since everyone on this website seems to be hitting good temps with the standard Weber hose. Keep the ideas coming bten, I'm really appreciating the help.

[Hugh]

Status to date - First, thank you all so much for your ideas. I cleaned up my heat deffusers and cleaned everyone of those darn little holes in my burners. The new Genesis II's have different burners than traditional ones, the holes are much larger and face up, not side ways so there are way fewer of them. I used a drill bit and just quickly cleaned out each hole. Before I did this, the flames were all running a nice blue (which is amazing after 2 years compared to my old Weber). There was some restriction in some of the holes. Alas, no real change in temps. 1 burner on high has trouble hitting 225. All 3 burners on max took over half an hour to get to 450.

One positive though which I can't explain. The Grill Greats were over 600 degrees according to my IR thermometer. I did a couple of smash burgers and ti worked well.

I can actually live quite happily with this solution if I can have over 600 degree Grill Grates. I don't use the gasser for low and slow any more and it does everything else adequately.

Having said that, I'm determined to get this fixed.

I've got a gas technician coming Monday to confirm that I'm getting the natural gas I need and that isn't causing the problem.

I'm going to clean out the 3 orifices.

I really like your test bten - I will play around with turning the burners on today and watch the flame size.

I can't think of anything else to check out. I will have gone though every part from the gas source all the way through to the burner.

[jfmorris]

Hugh, I think your dome thermometer is just way off from the actual grate temperature. Like I said - the grillgrates trap the heat. I am thinking now and not sure whether that 700 was my IR thermometer looking at the grate, or the dome thermometer. I used the grill this morning to cook 2 pounds of bacon for breakfast on upside down grillgrates. Just be sure to run the burners on low for bacon though! I'll pay more attention to dome versus grate temperature next time I cook, and let you know.

[Hugh]

Everything now works the way it should.

Low and Slow - one burner on high holds at 271 degrees (according to my iGrill).

Searing - your right jfmorris, the Weber thermometer is just plain wonky at high temps. The Grill Grates are actually heating to the mid 600's in 10 minutes as measured by IR.

My gas line pressure is good.

I had given up on low and slow on this BBQ. Having only recently been introduced to Smash Burgers on Grill Grates, I feel like I have a new BBQ. Thanks all for your help.

[jfmorris]

Hugh, glad you figured it out!

I have had to replace the Weber thermometers on my old Genesis and Performer Deluxe every couple of years it seems. They are just not good to start with, and while I found the old style to be somewhat accurate when new, they would go south after a few years. The old ones Weber used could be pulled out of the grill and double as a meat thermometer. I'm only 5 months into my new Genesis II with the newer style thermometer.