Sous-Vide-Que Deep Dive Guide eBook

[Meathead]

As I posted elsewhere, I wrote a lot about SVQ for my next book with Clint Cantwell's help and it grew outta control. So we turned it into a digital book. In order to keep it just for members it cannot be downloaded or printed. There is no print version because it has many links in it.

If you want a downloadable version it is sold to the public for $3.99 on Amazon in Kindle format. If you want the Kindle version go to https://tinyurl.com/sousvideque It is free to KindleUnlimited members.

This is the first of a series of eBooks that we will call Deep Dive Guides, free to Pitmaster Club members.

Here is a link to the chart in the book that is printable. We have ordered them as magnets but they aren't ready yet. https://amazingribs.com/files/heroim...1.0-1200px.png

Let us know what you think.

[Geekandproud]

Thanks for the post! I keep thinking about trying SVQ but haven't pulled the trigger. On an editing note, should the canola oil and inexpensive olive oil on the magnet be reversed?

[Troutman]

I like it Meathead, good little primer for the uninitiated. Maybe at some point go more into time versus temperature, that's still something I keep experimenting with. Also, at one point you wrote in another post that you didn't see any advantage to pre-smoking meat, or what we have termed the QVQ process. I tend to disagree because it not only adds flavor and sets an initial bark, it gives you some unbelievable purge with which to make a delicious sauce. Love to hear your reasoning for not liking it.

[Meathead]

Troutman In my experience the impact on bark is negligable since the meat eventually swims in the purge. And that washes away most of the flavor. I did blind tastings, smoke before, no smoke, smoke after, and most of the time I could not taste a difference between smoke before and no smoke. But smoke after mad a big diff. As for sauces from the purge, I have really struggled with them. I had better luck on poultry and other white meats, but red meats really want to coagulate. I have talked to a lot of chefs and few of them bother. I know you have had better luck than I have. What's your secret?

[Meathead]

Troutman As for more info on time and temp, as I explain.in that chapter, the experts agree on nothing. So much of it is personal preference. My goal was to get away from the pages of complicated time/temp charts that fill so many SV books and get good solid numbers that will work and are easy to remember. They are starting points and readers can experiment from there.

[Nate]

Troutman As for more info on time and temp, as I explain.in that chapter, the experts agree on nothing. So much of it is personal preference. My goal was to get away from the pages of complicated time/temp charts that fill so many SV books and get good solid numbers that will work and are easy to remember. They are starting points and readers can experiment from there.

I think this is my biggest hang up with SV and probably what is holding me back on trying it more than just steak, chops, etc... And what is frustrating is experimenting with food cook times of multiple days.... heck trying to remember what I like best will be next to impossible and as much as I love chuck roast I don't want to cook one every three days at 5 degree increments to try to figure it out...

And sorry but squeezing to feel how tender it is … for me ranks right up there of determining the doneness of a steak by touching the tip of your nose or point on your hand etc... it is not really a great point of reference … imho... Eventually I may get there though.

There has to be a better way for someone to articulate time and temp on these things... or adequately describe results, how they differ, etc...

I do like it for things like tonight when my wife gets home from work all she has to do is put the two bags of steaks in the bath and when I get home I can fire up the grill, sear em, and serve them... works great since I get home 2 - 2.5 hours later than my wife and I don't have time to always cook from start to finish when I get home unless we want dinner at 8:00 at night...

[Meathead]

Nate I have done EXACTLY what you are asking for on the chart. Straightforward. No squeezing. https://amazingribs.com/files/heroim...1.0-1200px.png

[fracmeister]

SVQ has become second nature to me now. When I buy meat on sale I (cut it up if needed and) salt it lightly and seal it in a bag before it goes into the freezer. When I am ready I take it out (frozen) and toss it in the water heating to the destination temp (adding an hour to thaw). I might cook for a short while for a steak and for 36 hours for big ole beef ribs. Either sear or smoke the end product. I might have those big ribs in at 225F smoking for 3-4 hours to develop a bark and smokiness. The steaks might get 60 seconds a side if My coals or cast iron is hot enough. I smoke one turkey Meathead's way and SVQ another one and sear...just so no matter what I have one that is done at the exacttimedesired.

Rock on

[Nate]

Nate I have done EXACTLY what you are asking for on the chart. Straightforward. No squeezing. https://amazingribs.com/files/heroim...1.0-1200px.png

Respectfully both agree and disagree...

You did offer a simplified solution and a baseline... that helps and is a good thing! It definitely gives some great information for someone like me who is still testing the waters so to speak for SV.

But back to my original comment about all the trial and error it will take to figure out tough cuts (and inability to remember between tries what was best)…. which is what you are recommending... to keep adjusting... but I think it is hard to compare something you ate a month or so ago to the next time... Also I will go back to the chuck roast... (this is a question I have asked in the pit before)… time and temp for if I want to slice it vs if I want to pull it... the book doesn't really address this (at least that I saw)….

My issue isn't so much with your book (or anyone else's book for that matter)… I'm just getting at SV is just all over the place and can be extremely frustrating for a person who likes some definitive answers (people that follow the recipe) vs the people who have the ability to make adjustments on the fly and turn out amazing stuff... I would love it if someone could definitively say... chuck roast: X-time at X-temp will give you the best med. rare slice results and should have this texture, mouth feel, etc... obviously we know now that the temp shouldn't be over 132ish but then what is the time frame for cooking to where it is at more of a slice texture vs a pull texture. Or on some cooks if you only have 36 hours available instead of 48 how much do I need to increase temp by to get desired result.... and maybe I am over thinking SV... or maybe this is more advanced than you were wanting to get into for the purpose of this book.

I think what the book shows for tough cuts is what is safe from a food safety standpoint and provides some basic results... but not necessarily optimal results.... or alternative results...

Maybe a suggestion for the site if you are wanting to encompass SVQ as well for AR... Take Last Meal Ribs for example... I think it would be interesting/useful if on that recipe card there was the SVQ alternative for making Last Meal Ribs... that walked the cook through the recipe, process, time, and temp, etc... for an optimum SVQ result for Last Meal Ribs just as there is for Live Fire... my guess is you may be more likely to hammer down and be able to provide a much more exact time and temp that you would recommend.... (maybe not)…

When cooking live fire I don't necessarily know the time but usually have an idea... but I know when it is done by temp and/or probe tender for certain cuts... Those rules don't apply here. We are trying to learn a new cooking language.

In regards to the squeeze test... I will direct you back to the book... page 48, paragraph 2, last sentence, and highlighted: "And remember, you can always pull the bag out of the bath and squeeze the meat to feel how tender it is."

But again thank you for the book... definitely no buyer's remorse.... I think it is full of some great information... and probably paves the way for more book opportunities to come!

[Troutman]

I still think Chef Steps has done the best job with presenting the time versus heat demonstrations for SV. I continue to refer back to them because they show you real tangible results. Here is their Beef Short Ribs cooks done 8 different ways along with a short video showing the texture and juiciness of each. Makes it a lot easier to figure out what works for your palette. I tend to be more visually oriented then having to interpret some chart.

https://www.chefsteps.com/activities...-ribs-your-way

[Troutman]

Also, if you do like charts, Chef Steps charting is fairly user friendly. I've found it to be a good starting point for most cuts.

https://www.chefsteps.com/activities...perature-guide

[Meathead]

Troutman I did numerous taste tests for a wide variety of meats with only my wife and I tasting, but we were unanimous on most things. A typical test would be:

Cut a brisket flat in 8 equal parts to the exact weight and thickness.
Salt them all.
One had oil in the bag. After SV it got rub and smoke.
Two got rub before. After SV one got rub and smoke, one got smoke only.
Two got smoke for an hour before. After SV one got rub and smoke, one got rub only.
Three got no treatment before. After SV one got rub and smoke, one got rub only one got smoke only.
I also played with searing not smoking.

Keeping them straight was a pain! I uses chrome plated house and car keys with different shapes embedded in the meats.

Pre-smoking or searing, adding herbs, spices, and oils to the bag, had very little impact on the final product compared to smoking, searing, flavoring after. In some cases I could taste it, in many cases I could not. In ALL cases rub, smoke, sear after was superior to our tastes, and rubbing and smoking after completely overrode the impact of pretreatment.

Finally, the chef at PolyScience told me about some cases where they found that presearing altered proteins so that there were airpockets in the meat. I discuss this on page 37.

And skipping these steps was a LOT simpler! And that is important. I really wanted to make SVQ simpler for the beginner. I wanted to see if I could squeeze the fussiness out. That's why I resisted offering different cooking temps for ribs and brisket etc. on the chart. I think that presmoking, prerubbing, stuff in the bag, chilling after, and then rubbing and smoking or searing and tweaking the temp and time in some cases might yield a SLIGHTLY superior result, but they also add a layer of fussiness. I don't want to scare off beginners. If advanced users like you find they work, go for it.

[Meathead]

Nate Here's my recipe: Use my times and temps and techniques and you will have a great meal. Period. Full stop. Look at my time and temps and they fit very neatly within the ChefSteps guides. I have been friend with them for years and they are the ones who taught me how to SV in person in their offices in Seattle.

If you want to experiment with different times and temps, go for it. Results might be better, might be worse, and it might vary from slab to slab. If you decide to try a lower temp and are not sure how it will turn out, squeezing a piece of meat is a reasonable measure of TENDERNESS. People who poke steaks on the grill think it is a guide to doneness, i.e. temperature. We know that is silly. But tenderness in the mouth correlates nicely to tenderness between thumb and forefinger, and tenderness is really what SV is all about.

[Meathead]

Nate I doubt I'll do a volume 2 but I am already seeing where I need to revise and clarify based on the feedback here. Also need to play more with purge. We are planning Deep Dives on other topics.

[Meathead]

Speaking of SVQ, we just released this article today
https://amazingribs.com/tested-recip...-sous-vide-que

There's a good video of how I broke down a prime rib for cooking Christmas dinner, and how I set aside the ribs for another meal, and the rib cap for yet another meal.