To Eat Meat Or Not

[Potkettleblack]

Ah, I can't help myself.

Beyond Burger ingredients (https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/...eyond-burger):
Water, Pea Protein Isolate, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Contains 2% or less of the following: Cellulose from Bamboo, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Natural Flavor, Maltodextrin, Yeast Extract, Salt, Sunflower Oil, Vegetable Glycerin, Dried Yeast, Gum Arabic, Citrus Extract (to protect quality), Ascorbic Acid (to maintain color), Beet Juice Extract (for color), Acetic Acid, Succinic Acid, Modified Food Starch, Annatto (for color).


Here are the ingredients for the new version of the vegan Impossible Burger (https://impossiblefoods.com/newrecipe):
Water, Soy Protein Concentrate, Coconut Oil, Sunflower Oil, Natural Flavors, 2% or less of: Potato Protein, Methylcellulose, Yeast Extract, Cultured Dextrose, Food Starch Modified, Soy Leghemoglobin, Salt, Soy Protein Isolate, Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E), Zinc Gluconate, Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1), Sodium Ascorbate (Vitamin C), Niacin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12

I dunno about you, but that's a whole lot of protein extracts, high omega-6 oils prone to breakdown, if not smoke, under fairly mild cooking conditions. Methylcellulose is indigestible, used as a stool softening laxative. I'm not big on unfermented soy anything, or a lot of items in my food that I can't imagine taking three steps from the field to my plate. A beef burger may take more than three steps in production, but Butcher the Cow, Grind the Meat, Form the Patty is the basic movement.

[tamulherin]

As a good friend always says, "If god didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat"

[LiamBlack]

For me, the continuous torment is to cook additionally small portions for people who do not eat meat. Not to say that it’s good or bad, it’s just not convenient if I cook at all.

I had a girlfriend who surprised me, she doesn’t eat meat and said that she doesn’t need to cook anything except drinks and brought her own food, it was strange, but on the other hand, she showed concern to me as a cook, it was nice.

[Murdy]

I knew a guy a long time ago who identified himself as a "social omnivore," which he described as I eat a vegetarian diet at home or when I otherwise can, but if I'm at someone's house, and they cook me a meal, I'm not going to be rude and not eat it. (Looking back, I would think he was in the health camp as opposed to the ethical camp of vegetarians).

[ScottyC13]

The issue I have with the meat substitute products is how processed they are. Each one of those ingredients takes time, resources (water, etc.) and energy (power, transportation, etc.) to create and deliver to the process for making the meat substitute. As an engineer, we are taught to draw a box around an entire process to determine how much energy it takes. The knock on meat from some folks is cows, chickens, pigs, farmed fish need water and food to grow, which it true. It is claimed they use a lot of resources and energy, which is also true.

But if we apply the same principle to the items in the OP, each one of those ingredients takes a lot of resources and energy to produce. No one has really done a study to show the amount. It is not like they are taking carrot and grilling it. So what are we really gaining? We are getting a highly processed food that takes somewhat like beef, has as many calories in it and a lot of extras to preserve it.

I don't think we gain anything.

[Histrix]

https://impossiblefoods.com/if-pr/LCA-Update-2019/

[Meathead]

I have seen preliminary studies that indicate that the meat substitutes use significantly less energy, water, resources. But for the health obsessed, we are talking the most processed food in the grocery store.

[Polarbear777]

They claim it uses 80-90% less resources, but it’s still the same or higher cost? Good investment.

[Bkhuna]

"Everything in moderation, including moderation."

[mountainsmoker]

I am sort of in the middle of this discussion. Cattle are the worst climate disrupters of any production animal we produce. There methane production and waste production world wide is more than several sub-continents.

Will Vegan ever replace meat eaters, I think not, they have to have to eat a very specific diet of grains to get the proteins to survive . It just isn't palatable to most people. Will fish replace meat no there is not enough in the seas to do so, as the recent limits on catches have shown. Pork, beef and lamb which is not as popular here in the US will always be first.

[HouseHomey]

Soyrizo is pretty good. I cooked some yesterday for an event.

[Histrix]

Article in the NYTimes yesterday that is pertinent to this discussion:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/opinion/vegan-food.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=OpEd+Columnists&fbclid=IwAR2kovED8DWLw7tOeBrBXN_8qSmH0zn8x23rRxWu3TDsxPm2_u0VyPAmTio

Farhad is not wrong.

[efincoop]

The timing of this post & subsequent (fascinating) discussion is serendipitous as the consumption of (mostly) red meat has been a discussion at several recent family gatherings and at home well. I fully suspect this discussion will come up again over the coming holiday weekend.

At this point my wife & I are following the guidelines most easily defined as the Mediterranean diet. We try to incorporate 1-2 vegetarian meals, 1-2 seafood meals, 1-2 poultry meals and 1-2 meat (pork/lamb/beef) each week. I think for us, Meathead summed it up best with the statement "If you fear that meat is bad for you or the environment or cruel, perhaps you should try to buy meat that is humanely raised and painlessly slaughtered or perhaps you should skip meat a few meals a week."

When we eat meat, we purchase it from small local farmers, who based on their claims, raise & harvest animals in a humane manner. I would also consider sourcing meat from vendors such as Porter Road.

I would like to say thank you to Meathead for taking the time to create such an interesting, thought provoking post and to everyone else who has contributed to the discussion. This is one of the things I love about this site & community.

[MarkN]

Two things:

1) I do try to buy locally raised meats when I can. Especially after noticing that grass fed ground beef is a deep purple color and looks like ground steak, while supermarket ground beef is generally a pasty pinkish color and looks like, well, not like steak.

2) Where I work, there is a Wellbeing program that provides incentives for doing healthy things and this includes some 6-lesson classes. I took the one entitled Mission: Nutrition. In it, there was a confirmation/warning that anyone deciding upon a vegetarian or vegan diet should consult a physician first because they will need supplements to make up for the vitamins, such as B12, that they can only get from animal flesh (mentioned in the article).

[Attjack]

Personally I don't know any adults vegans or vegetarians that proselytize. All the ones I know just do their thing and live in a world of meat-eaters bombarded by meat-centric billboards, TV and radio ads, and restaurants that all cater to us, the common meat-eater.