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Getting Frustrated with Temperature Control

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  • Henrik
    replied
    I think both IowaGirl and Mosca are spot on.

    1. Start with a smaller fire. One cube, in one spot.
    2. Close the lid and start choking down vents well in advance, 50-70 degrees before target temp
    3. If using a controller, get it plugged in way before, so it gets a chance to monitor how slow/fast the temp
    goes up during startup
    4. Turn off the alarms for now, and sit with it to see.
    5 I would switch to lump charcoal, especially when doing longer cooks to avoid the ash clogging up the vent holes in the bottom.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mosca
    replied
    Originally posted by Satchelpig View Post

    So this and a similar comment from gator about fire size and coal arrangement gave me an idea about the possible problem. As I said I lit the coals with two paraffin cubes spread out, so each had plenty of fuel and together they had access to the majority of the coals. But at a temp that low, that might cover too much area out of the gate to control heat. If instead I used one cube on one side of the tray, and let the fire naturally spread among the coals as necessary to hit the target, control might be easier. I'm running that experiment now.
    Exactly this. You started too big a fire.

    This is part of the normal learning curve for the type of cooker. Things move slooooow with kamados. If you try to hurry them you are not in sync with the tool. Use one cube and plan on an hour to reach your temp. By then you will have a hot small flame front that should hold a rock solid whatever temp you want until it runs out of coal. On my BGE I can move the temp a couple of degrees, like from 237 to 240, by tapping lightly on either vent. Tap it lightly back and a few minutes later it is at 237 again. I’m talking almost imperceptible movement, but the fire perceives it.

    That’s because the cooker is controlling the fire. Think about that for a second. We aren’t cooking with a kamado. We are cooking with a fire. We are using a kamado to control the fire, but the cooking is being done with the fire. So, keep the fire within the boundary of the tool we are using to control it. In the above example, I can also move the temp from 237 to 337, and it will get there in about 5 minutes... but going from 337 back to 237 will take about an hour, if I shut the thing down completely.

    I’m not familiar with your fan and controller, but I do use a DigiQ. I keep both the upper and lower vents throttled down pretty low. The Pit Viper fan has an adjustment for that, and I’m rarely over 1/4 open. These things really need very little air. Once the shell heats up, it’s just maintaining what you already have.
    Last edited by Mosca; May 24, 2020, 11:00 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • IowaGirl
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure. Take what I had to say that works for you and leave the rest.

  • Satchelpig
    replied
    Originally posted by IowaGirl View Post

    If you had(a) manually readjusted the coals to reduce the rate . . .,these actions might have gotten the fire tamed enough that the controller could then effectively control.
    So this and a similar comment from gator about fire size and coal arrangement gave me an idea about the possible problem. As I said I lit the coals with two paraffin cubes spread out, so each had plenty of fuel and together they had access to the majority of the coals. But at a temp that low, that might cover too much area out of the gate to control heat. If instead I used one cube on one side of the tray, and let the fire naturally spread among the coals as necessary to hit the target, control might be easier. I'm running that experiment now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Satchelpig
    replied
    Originally posted by IowaGirl View Post
    There are marked differences in your initial starting conditions. I wonder if this was the reason why the controller did a poor job on the rib cook, but worked fine for the other cook.

    By the time you activated your controller for the rib cook (that's the point that you circled with the note "On", right?), the initial temp for the rib cook had overshot your target temp and I suspect the fire was going pretty strongly.

    You can see the controller tried repeatedly to slow down the rate of combustion, but every time the temp reached your low setpoint of 200F, the controller was forced to open up before the fire was truly smothered enough to start behaving itself.

    If you had (a) manually readjusted the coals to reduce the rate of combustion or (b) temporarily reduced the low set point so the controller had enough time to truly slow down the fire, either of these actions might have gotten the fire tamed enough that the controller could then effectively control.

    For the other cook, it looks like you activated your controller well before the temp had risen into the desired control range, so the controller could rate back the combustion early on. That let the temp remain in good control before the fire got burning too strongly. Try it again and get the controller on board before the temp has a chance to run away on you.
    Just to clarify: the second cook shown was on a pellet grill, and "ON" signifies adding the meat, not when I turned on the controller.

    Leave a comment:


  • SmokeyGator
    replied
    I haven’t ever used anything but lump in my primo. For low and slow I start off with a small fire. I don’t use starters, a propane torch or cheapie harbor freight heat gun works.

    with the heat diffusers in place the fire will get very hot before the grill is up to temperature. If you start with a large fire by the time the heat plates absorb enough heat to radiate it the fire will overshoot the desired temperature. What I do for 225 is leave the fan damper and top vent wide open with the heat plates in with a very small fire and only 1/2 of the grate in. At 150-175 I lift the plate on the fire side, add the wood, replace the heat pate and put in the other grill grate. Then I set the top vent to the daisy wheel at 1/2 and close the fan damper until I don’t see smoke leaks from anywhere except the top vent. Then let it slowly get to 225.

    once it’s there give it 15 or 20 to settle in then throw in the food. At this point I’m not sure the fan damper does as much, the top vent controls airflow. As long as the fan damper isn’t closed or set lower than about 1/3 open the fan should be able to supply enough air.

    its a bit of a learning curve.

    Leave a comment:


  • IowaGirl
    replied
    There are marked differences in your initial starting conditions. I wonder if this was the reason why the controller did a poor job on the rib cook, but worked fine for the other cook.

    By the time you activated your controller for the rib cook (that's the point that you circled with the note "On", right?), the initial temp for the rib cook had overshot your target temp and I suspect the fire was going pretty strongly.

    You can see the controller tried repeatedly to slow down the rate of combustion, but every time the temp reached your low setpoint of 200F, the controller was forced to open up before the fire was truly smothered enough to start behaving itself.

    If you had (a) manually readjusted the coals to reduce the rate of combustion or (b) temporarily reduced the low set point so the controller had enough time to truly slow down the fire, either of these actions might have gotten the fire tamed enough that the controller could then effectively control.

    For the other cook, it looks like you activated your controller well before the temp had risen into the desired control range, so the controller could rate back the combustion early on. That let the temp remain in good control before the fire got burning too strongly. Try it again and get the controller on board before the temp has a chance to run away on you.

    Leave a comment:


  • LA Pork Butt
    replied
    smokin fool its time for you to win the ”Give Away” or buy a ceramic Kamado. I’m pulling for you.
    Last edited by LA Pork Butt; May 24, 2020, 07:15 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • smokin fool
    commented on 's reply
    I’m much the same lighting my fire but I can be accused of using too much fuel once and awhile
    Another problem with my Keg it’s an older unit dampers are missing rivets and the gasket let’s air bleed thru
    I’ve learned to live with it
    I’ve stopped using a diffuser get better results without it seems

  • LA Pork Butt
    replied
    smokin fool if you start too large of a fire it can be difficult to get into the low range. I usually start mine with a BBG like starter square set on edge running left to right and buried with just the top showing. I’ll light the two exposed corners and when it flames out I put in the diffuser in and set my vents. It will take about another 30 minutes to stabilize at 225.

    Leave a comment:


  • smokin fool
    replied
    My BBK is famous for LA Pork Butt theory
    once the temp runs away it takes forever to cool down
    Learning how to use the dampers takes awhile on Kamado’s at least on mine it did and it’s still throwing curve balls
    Last thing is temp wheelhouse Kamado’s have a mind of they’re own my Keg prefers to cook at 300-325. It’s a miracle if I can hold a 250 for a full cook maybe get down to 280 but that’s acting alot
    Its new your going to have to learn each other

    Leave a comment:


  • Texas Larry
    replied
    The kettle/SnS combo has been a go-to for me for a while. Yesterday it held in a 16 degree range (232-248*) for over 6 hours for a small pork shoulder roast. Very little fiddling and had about half the fuel left. Had some moderate wind. Have run it longer. Have not yet sprung for a fan controller. Might have to for a really long cook.
    Last edited by Texas Larry; May 24, 2020, 12:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DavidNorcross
    replied
    I have the same cooker. I can honestly say that I have not used it without the SnS. There is a learning curve for sure but I have found it to be very forgiving. I read your post a couple times but I am reading from my phone so may have missed it. What was the temp when you closed the lid just after starting the coals? I have found that I leave the lid up longer and then when I close I have both bottom and top vents open. As the temps begin to rise I will reduce the top vent slightly and then when I am 50 degrees from temp I cut the top draft way back and control using the bottom vent until I hit temp. Once I hit temp it holds great for me. If I have had a frustration it is reaching the higher temps of 350 and up for longer cooks.

    let me know your thoughts. I will also tell you that their support is fantastic.

    Leave a comment:


  • LA Pork Butt
    commented on 's reply
    Satchelpig Once you over shoot on a Kamado it will take a long time for temps to come down. Over shooting by 100 could take 30 minutes to an hour + to come back down to your target. I am not sure if the dynamic changes using briquettes verses lump. I do know lump burns faster and hotter than briquettes.

  • Red Man
    replied
    I don’t have a kamado, but the temp spiking after the vents are closed makes sense to me. By closing the vents, you abruptly stop venting the heat, causing a rise in cooker temp. The coals go out and the temp begins to slowly drop. A kamado will come down in temp very slowly.

    Leave a comment:

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