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Quest for Clean Fire/Blue Smoke in a Cabinet Smoker?

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    Quest for Clean Fire/Blue Smoke in a Cabinet Smoker?

    July 9 this year, I made my 5th trip to Texas to buy a smoker. This one is a Vault from Pitmaker.com. It's a big, insulated cabinet smoker. And she is pretty! And heavy, 925 pounds! She has 5 racks, 22 x 25, for a healthy 2,750 sq inches of cooking space. Here w are at the Pitmaker plant picking up Red!
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    And the obligatory photo op stop at Buc-ee's, the World's Premier Travel Stop Empire
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    My plan with this pit is to have a healthy size alternative cooker to so smaller cooks on the Trailer, that don't require the size of the big Myron Mixon. The added plus for the Cabinet smoker is that you don't have to tend the fire, like on the Stickburner.

    Brought her home, followed the instructions given by the folks at Pitmaker, and our first cooks were underway! 3 briquites wide, stack wood chunks on top, and make an L. They told me that pre-heating the pit with a Weedburner was their recommended way to heat it up. I didn't have a weedburner at first, so I used the firebox to heat up, which takes a few hours. Anyway, here is the charcoal layout, with a 1/3 chimney of lit coals on the end of the fuse.
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    This is what the coals look like some time later, when the cook is done.
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    This is as far as I could open the ball valve, and with the amount of fuel pictured above, and a couple of briskets inside, would get too hot, and I'd have to clamp it down even more.
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    A rack of ribs. Please notice the near total absence of any pretty pink smoke ring.
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    The first cooks had too much heat, once the cooker got up to temp, which featured these negative consequences:

    1. Radiant heat from the bottom which charred the bottom of the food.
    2. Too much heat once the pit got hot, so I had to choke down the airflow to get the temps down.
    3. Low airflow means smoldering fire. I hate smoldering fire. Thus, the flavor from the smoke was not that great.

    So, after several cooks, I did a couple of things

    A. Bought a weedburner to warm up the pit and do away with the over-heating at the beginning and some of the radiant heat problem
    B. Started experimenting with different fuel amounts and layouts.



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    #2
    What a rig! That baby is sweet!! Looks like its built like a tank. I really like those cabinet smokers. This will be perfect for set and forget, Then you can focus on other things......like tending the stick burner!

    Comment


      #3
      Is this one like the Lone Stars where you can fill the bottom of the cooking chamber with water? Or at least place some water pans in there? I bet this would help you keep a hot fire for the qualities of a hot fire w/o too much heat.

      Comment


      • PaulstheRibList
        PaulstheRibList commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, it can absolutely be a water cooker...you are reading ahead!

      #4
      The Weedburner is SUPER FUN! It takes maybe 5 minutes to heat up the pit to 225, plus you can light your coals in the unit in another couple minutes
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      Here I'm still going with a bit of a lazy method. Put wood chunks down, and put a thin layer of charcoal on top of them. A bit of a switch from at first, where i put the wood chunks on top.
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      I think the temps got a little hot when cooking these butts.
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      Bark formation can certianly happen and end up pretty. Though with the lower airflow on the cabinet, the bark does not harden up until near the end. The taste, however, is still not as good as on my WSM, and certainly not as good as the stickburner.
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      THere was radiant heat on these chicken legs. They were still good, but not great.
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      More trials and experimentation needed!

      Comment


        #5
        At this point, I am firmly frustrated. My food looks good, and you can cook it to tender, and I can keep the temps in line, but the flavor is off.

        During this entire process, I am recalling the WSM learning curve, how switchig from Minion to Fuse allowed me to open up the vents more, keep the temps in line, and have better tasting food (and looking - smoke ring magic!).

        So, I am working how to have a smaller, cleaner, fully engaged fire. The size fuel string I was putting in at first will get the cooker too hot if I leave the vent more than 40% open.

        So, less fuel, more airflow, cleaner fire.

        I reached out to the salesman at Pitmaker, and didn't get much clarifation or help (that gentleman is not with the company any more).

        So I tried a couple of other experiments.

        Here is a single layer of small wood pieces and 3 wide charcoal, single layer
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        Next, I bought these cool ready made Charcoal Maze parts, these are from Humphrey's. Wood chunks first:
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        Then the least charcoal I can put in there and have them all touching, one to the next
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        And the Weedburner!
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        Food cooks well and is good, but the bottom is still charred from radiant heat on the bottom.
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        Attached Files

        Comment


          #6
          I love the trial and error.

          Great looking smokers man. Gorgeous in fact. And who doesn't love the old weed burner!

          Comment


          #7
          Next, I did what the guy at Pitmaker said they almost never do, and started filling the water pan with some H20 to eliminate the Radiant Heat issue, and allow me to open the ball valve up more and still keep the temps in line.

          Apparently, I didn't take as many pictures of this. It did work better, but more learning needed.

          So, here is where I am at now:

          1. I've cooked on this unit about 20 times. One stretch I had it hot 8 days straight.

          2. I really am not enjoying cooking on this unit, compared to the Stickburner and how easy it is for me to get excellent results...if I have time to tend that fire!

          3. I think I am going to need to keep an exact log of fuel amounts/pattern, water/no-water, as well as size of load in the cooker, % Vents open, so I can repeat cooks. The insulated cooker is more efficient, so the changes to the ball valve opening has a greater impact than it does on the WSM, for example.

          4. I am a little frustrated that the folks I bought it from don't have more to tell me?

          5. My apprentice is stalking the Facebook/Instagram of BBQ cooks/teams/restaurants of folks who cook with Vault's. It's a popular unit, and a lot of people use them and really like them. We will make friends and reach out and see what we can learn from their experiment.

          6. I've instructed my apprentice to fire up the Vault every time he's at the trailer doing another cook. We will get some reps and document our learning if we get more time on this pit!

          7. I think using the Water Pan feature will allow me to cook the way I like, with a much more open airflow.

          8. After we get the fire management more nailed down, we will do more side-by-side blind taste tests, to see how the Vault compares to the Stickburners. Again, lots of folks use these and win competitions and run good catering/restaurants. But, without a side-by-side, are the subtle differences noticable?

          9. We will learn to use this pit well, and it will be much appreciated when i can do smaller cooks without having to tend that stickburner all day.

          10. I CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR IDEAS AND EXPERIENCE FROM YOU GUYS! And to share with other cabinet cookers what I learn along the way.

          Comment


            #8
            Yer dedication to excellent cooks is commendable. I can run my Weber Kettle at 225, or 350+ and I thought I was talented. You'll get it man, it's like dating a new lady. Every one is different and some are really picky. (No offense to ladies in general, men are picky too, just ask MSRedneck.)

            Comment


              #9
              I wouldn't use so much wood.

              Comment


                #10
                Anxious to hear how your tests progress.

                it is a shame that such a beautiful rig is giving you this much of a challenge.

                For the butts I don't know what you normally do but I would definitely be running them fat cap down to create a nice radiant heat barrier until you figured it out.

                PS... I'm curious about this apprentice program you have going...
                Last edited by Nate; December 10, 2016, 02:03 AM.

                Comment


                • PaulstheRibList
                  PaulstheRibList commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Fat side down on butts...could be a hit rap song!

                #11
                You're really trying to get me to move down there aren't you? Maybe just a visit...

                Comment


                #12
                I've been running a vault for close to two years now and haven't had any of the problems you're describing. I do have the diverter plate installed and rarely use water. I also use a cyberq most of the time to control temps. When I do use the ball valve I seldom run it over a 1/8" gap after it reaches temp even if I'm using oak splits.
                unless I overlooked it, l didn't see any mention of using a temp probe to monitor the pit temp. If your relying on the door's gauge make sure you calibrate it. Mine was off enough to be a big problem but is an easy fix.

                Comment


                #13
                Originally posted by flht01 View Post
                I've been running a vault for close to two years now and haven't had any of the problems you're describing. I do have the diverter plate installed and rarely use water. I also use a cyberq most of the time to control temps. When I do use the ball valve I seldom run it over a 1/8" gap after it reaches temp even if I'm using oak splits.
                unless I overlooked it, l didn't see any mention of using a temp probe to monitor the pit temp. If your relying on the door's gauge make sure you calibrate it. Mine was off enough to be a big problem but is an easy fix.
                It has a Tel Tru door gauge, and it is off by about 35 degrees. There is no exterior adjustment screw, so I need to figure that out. I've compensated for that when using it.

                It has the heat diverter plate, which is simply a 2nd piece of steel that slides in above the firebox. They actually left 2 plates, so I have double heat diverter plate. I've ran it with and without the plate.

                I think I have the radiant heat mostly figured out. It's the "How to run a cleaner fire and stay in temp" one that is still left to conquer.

                flht01 so when you run without the cyberq, you have the ball valve only open 1/8 way?

                Comment


                  #14
                  Originally posted by PaulstheRibList View Post

                  It has a Tel Tru door gauge, and it is off by about 35 degrees. There is no exterior adjustment screw, so I need to figure that out. I've compensated for that when using it.
                  I did the same thing, replaced the gauge with a Tel Tru and I have the same 30 to 35 degree difference.

                  It has the heat diverter plate, which is simply a 2nd piece of steel that slides in above the firebox. They actually left 2 plates, so I have double heat diverter plate. I've ran it with and without the plate.

                  I think I have the radiant heat mostly figured out. It's the "How to run a cleaner fire and stay in temp" one that is still left to conquer.
                  I agree, in order to run with the air flow your looking for you'll have to have a real small fire and manage it much like an offset. There's a YouTube video "jmoney" did using just a handful of coals and a stick at a time leaving the firebox door cracked. Might want to give that a look.

                  flht01 so when you run without the cyberq, you have the ball valve only open 1/8 way?
                  That's correct, but keep in mind I'm letting the intake volume control the fire. The exhaust is open 100% and that's using lump charcoal. With red oak splits I have to open it up a little more. When I'm using the cyberq, I have the exhaust completely open and the fan damper is only about 30% open. It will almost draft enough thru the fan to hold 225 and only runs about 25% to keep the splits burning.
                  Heres a picture of my firebox loaded for a 16 hour cook at 225 using the cyberq. It ran 10 hours unattended, then only required the splits to be "bunched up" to finish.

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                  Last edited by flht01; December 11, 2016, 10:53 AM.

                  Comment


                  • PaulstheRibList
                    PaulstheRibList commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I can't wait to see! Can you try again with the picture?

                  • TheCountofQ
                    TheCountofQ commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Me neither. Would love to see how hour set up for 16!! The pic isn't showing up though.

                  #15
                  I really wanted to buy a Vault - read lots of reviews and some were identical to yours. I remember some folks talking about using hot embers to get a good smoke fire started and others talking about always starving wood at the end of a cook and using those as coals to start the new cook. It seemed like a Guru was a necessity. In the end, the wife said there was no way I could spend our money on the Vault. I went back into the archives here because I had remembered someone who had a nice Vault rig - https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...e-philadelphia. I does not look like he is active in the Pit any longer but he has a Facebook page and a web site. He could be of value to you. I really like your write-up as well as flht01 's input. I haven't given up on my dream of owning one someday.

                  Comment


                  • Jerod Broussard
                    Jerod Broussard commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I am pretty sure you are supposed to TELL your wife you bought a vault.

                  • tbob4
                    tbob4 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Jerod Broussard - HA! You should have seen all the tricks I had to pull out to get my second smoker. Both of my smokers are 1/2 the price of the Vault. Logic says I could have gotten the Vault. Yeah, logic. Never works.

                  • PaulstheRibList
                    PaulstheRibList commented
                    Editing a comment
                    #AskForgivenessBetterThanAskPermission

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