Welcome!


This is a membership forum. Guests can view 5 pages for free. To participate, please join.

[ Pitmaster Club Information | Join Now | Login | Contact Us ]

Only 4 free page views remaining.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Homemade Vortex Clone Conundrum

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Homemade Vortex Clone Conundrum

    Hello all!

    I have a vexing Vortex question for all you metallurgists and people who are smarter than I am. I am a sheet metal fabricator, and rather than paying $40 friggen bucks for a Vortex, I decided to draw my own frustum up in CAD, cut, and fab it. It turned out pretty well, matches the dimensions of the medium size Vortex to (semi) reasonable tolerances, but I might have a material issue on my hands.

    The quickest way to fab this was with mill finish .063 ALUMINUM. Obviously, a 22 or lower gauge steel would have been preferable, but I am lazy. Will the aluminum be able to withstand the heat of the coals piled up inside it? I know the melting point of AL is right around 1,200° F, assuming I'm using briquettes, will they burn hot enough to melt the aluminum and ruin my Weber Kettle?

    I used the aluminum thinking that PK grills and Grill Grates are aluminum products, but I'm not sure if they use some crazy alloys or anodization that protect their products from high heat. The more I considered this the more gun shy I became about dumping an entire chimney of screaming hot coals into my homemade conical section.

    If any of you have any insight I to this matter, I would most appreciate it. Thanks for hearing me out.
    Attached Files

    #2
    Go for it and modify the final material as required,,,,

    Comment


      #3
      I've heard that guys cut out the bottom of a stainless dog bowl to make a Vortex Hack.

      Comment


      • DTro
        DTro commented
        Editing a comment
        What size bowl? Askin' for a friend.

      • Old Glory
        Old Glory commented
        Editing a comment
        DTro not sure the guy said he had an old bowl and cut it out.

      • CinderKeeper
        CinderKeeper commented
        Editing a comment
        A medium size Vortex is 8" in diameter at the top and 12" at the base, something similar to that should do the trick

      #4
      1. Yes, they will absolutely 100% no-doubt turn that beautiful thing into an oxidized puddle in your ash catcher. It'll hold up for a while, but will definitely have melting. The other products you mention aren't intentionally in direct contact with the burning briquettes, so they won't get the full value of the heat source. The radiation impact decreases dramatically the further you are from the source, and you're literally touching it.

      2. No, it will absolutely, 100% no-doubt NOT ruin anything you can't fix on the Weber. Very likely you'll have some splashed drops of aluminum that end up on the cleaning fins in the bottom, but I doubt it'll be something you can't get off or live with.

      Important caveat: Don't try this if you've got a water pan situated where molten aluminum can land in or on the water. It's not super likely in your scenario, but trapping water with molten aluminum can lead to a hellacious steam explosion. WAAAYY less likely, but way more cool, is creating an aluminum oxidation explosion which releases 90% the energy of TNT. OK, I'll take my geek hat off now....sorry.

      (I work with molten aluminum for a living. Also, my son and his teammates used charcoal briquettes in my backyard to melt aluminum in small crucible for a project in one of their engineering classes. Cool project - briquettes get really hot...)

      But hey - ya only live once! Give it a try! Your method seems pretty solid, and I am curious how long it does hold up.
      Last edited by Caffeine88; February 17, 2022, 06:15 PM. Reason: Edit to add important caveat, and reveal geek self

      Comment


        #5
        Do you have a place where you could dump the hot coals in it for a test?

        Comment


          #6
          Caffeine88

          My worst fears are founded! Thank you for the response, I had a hunch the coals being in direct contact were going to mess it up. I read a post somewhere, at some point in my life, where someone said they thew their grill grates directly onto coals to do some searing, so I thought this idea might fly. I will also be sure to keep the water pans away. I do enough dumb crap week to week I don't need to bring any more life threatening stupidity into my life, thanks for the heads up and all your geekiness!!

          RonB Yes, I have a concrete pad and an old grill grate I can use to do an experiment! Might have to see how it goes.... Worst comes to worst I'll throw a hotdog on a stick and have a little weenie roast over it as it melts to slag.

          I can always glue some wood on the bottom and use it as a flower pot for some herbs in the summer, assuming I don't burn it to oblivion.

          Thanks everyone!
          Last edited by CinderKeeper; February 17, 2022, 07:35 PM. Reason: Word variance

          Comment


          • Caffeine88
            Caffeine88 commented
            Editing a comment
            You might get away with in for grill grates, because of their design to rapidly dissipate heat through the upper fins and the fact they're heavier gauge. Your 16 ga material....well....it'll probably make some great art!

          • CaptainMike
            CaptainMike commented
            Editing a comment
            Just bend up some stainless steel and be on your way.

          #7
          Even if you pay $40. or so for a Vortex they are well worth it! But I have a cheaper alternative for you which works just as well. I’ve bought 2 of these "alternative" brands and they are just as good IMO. I’ve had one of them for a year or so and have held up perfectly. No warping or disfigurement at all. $26.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	D562677A-F7B2-4109-8459-D8D4B11A3E97.png Views:	0 Size:	218.0 KB ID:	1176652

          Comment


          • Caffeine88
            Caffeine88 commented
            Editing a comment
            Awww damn.... Is Panhead John STILL here??

            Sorry, PJ, couldn't resist.... 😁
            Last edited by Caffeine88; February 17, 2022, 08:45 PM.

          • Panhead John
            Panhead John commented
            Editing a comment
            Caffeine88 That’s it! You’ve hurt my feelings for the last time…I’m blocking you!
            (till tomorrow anyway) 🥸
            Last edited by Panhead John; February 18, 2022, 05:47 AM.

          • Troutman
            Troutman commented
            Editing a comment
            Don't worry Caffeine88 old PJ has block me numerous times, he's sooo sensitive. Thing is he loves us all and comes crawling back for more. As my old man used to say, "He's a gluten for punishment" (or was that 'He has a hole in his head'?, I don't know)

          #8
          CinderKeeper you are well past the $40 it would have cost you in effort alone.

          Comment


          • ItsAllGoneToTheDogs
            ItsAllGoneToTheDogs commented
            Editing a comment
            I have spent hundreds of dollars to save well... nothing. Sometimes it's about the journey and the pride

          #9
          Yep. You've wasted your time fabricating with aluminum. It'll eventually break down under the heat. Source some steel. Doesn't have to be stainless like what they make the real Vortex out of, but stay away from galvanized (lead). Personally, I didn't have a problem paying for the Vortex, even though I could have rolled some sheet metal into a cone and popped some rivits into it. But that's just me. The only steel readily available to me would probably be thin galvanized stuff at the hardware store.

          I've seen Grillgrates melted down and puddled in the bottom of a grill too... 1100F is the danger zone for aluminum. A grease fire in my Weber Genesis damaged two panels of Grillgrates last year. It also warped the cast aluminum firebox of the Weber grill.

          Make sure to take some pictures if it does melt and post them here! I want to see that!
          Last edited by jfmorris; February 18, 2022, 08:05 AM.

          Comment


            #10
            Just to expand on the fine commentary from @Caffeine88 , the design of the vortex works because it forms a venturi that accelerates the airflow thus stoking the fire to intensify heat output. Think similar to a blacksmith using bellows in a forge. Those commercially available units are usually 430 grade of stainless, not particularly sophisticated metallurgy.

            Comment


            • CinderKeeper
              CinderKeeper commented
              Editing a comment
              Appreciate it Uncle Bob, I knew coal could melt aluminum in a forge but was unsure if a grill had the airflow to reach those temps, makes total sense!

            #11
            Here's what I did. $3.

            Click image for larger version

Name:	20180514_191006.jpg
Views:	701
Size:	54.5 KB
ID:	1176894

            Click image for larger version

Name:	20180514_191416.jpg
Views:	702
Size:	94.2 KB
ID:	1176895

            Comment


            • Henrik
              Henrik commented
              Editing a comment
              This is what I did too. bought a dirt cheap stainless steel bowl and cut the bottom off with a grinder. Cost: $4. Time spent: 2 minutes.

            • jfmorris
              jfmorris commented
              Editing a comment
              This is certainly the cheapest way to source and fabricate it from stainless steel.

            • rickgregory
              rickgregory commented
              Editing a comment
              This is also why i have issues with the $40 price of the Vortex. Yes, they use better steel. Yes it's probably angled 'optimally'. But... Come on.

          Announcement

          Collapse
          No announcement yet.
          Working...
          X
          false
          0
          Guest
          Guest
          500
          ["pitmaster-my-membership","login","join-pitmaster","lostpw","reset-password","special-offers","help","nojs","meat-ups","gifts","authaau-alpha","ebooklogin-start","alpha","start"]
          false
          false
          {"count":0,"link":"/forum/announcements/","debug":""}
          Yes
          ["\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1157845-paid-members-download-your-6-deep-dive-guide-ebooks-for-free-here","\/forum\/the-pitcast","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2019-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2020-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2021-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2022-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2023-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2024-issues","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here"]
          /forum/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here